Hi, Jason invited me, so it's his fault ;c)

Discussion in 'New member introductions' started by Metal5000, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. Metal5000

    Metal5000 Copper

    Hello all,
    I started a metal casting foundry about two years ago in a small industrial unit in North East England. I began by making an oil burner and was running it on diesel, but it was rather temperamental and the fuel is expensive. So I then had a natural gas line installed and bought a proper gas burner and constructed a larger furnace. It will hold a No A12 crucible and can melt brass in about 50 minutes.

    The business idea is to target 3d printer owners the need their prints cast in metal. I have a decent amount of Bentomix oil bonded sand (similar to Petrobond I believe) and have recently got set up to do ceramic shell moulds for lost wax / PLA casting.

    I have a large steel box from an old boiler tank that I am planning on turning into a firing kiln, but I'm not sure how to power it, as the gas supply is only domestic pressure. I suppose electric induction would facilitate more precise temperature control, but I want to keep the cost down.

    I have a big project in the works to make a bronze bust of Beethoven as it is his 250th anniversary in December.

    Anyhow, that's my quick introduction.

    Many thanks to Jason for the invitation,

    Ian.

    My website:
    www.3dprintfoundry.com

    YouTube
    3D Print Foundry
     
  2. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Super cool. Hope you post pics of projects.

    What's wrong with gas powered kilns on home pressure? You just need a few psi to keep the temperature at 1500F to cure the shells. If you can melt brass with the pressure it should be plenty for the kiln. I recently made a gas kiln that I run at pretty low psi.
     
  3. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Gold Banner Member

    Welcome! Even if it's Jason's fault you're here... :p Cool idea for a business, everyone is buying 3D printers these days it seems. Good luck with it!

    Personally, I haven't figured out how to make any money doing this yet (other than a couple bucks for castings a few friends have requested to give as gifts, and a free blacksmithing lesson I still have to sign up for), just a lot of fun.

    Nice site too, will check out the video(s) I'm seeing on there when I get home from work.

    You can post a link to your YouTube
    channel here if you like:

    //forums.thehomefoundry.org/index.php?threads/members-video-channels.188/

    Jeff
     
  4. Metal5000

    Metal5000 Copper

    Hey Zapins,
    As I understand, the gas pressure in my workshop is maybe around 20 millibar or .29 PSI. This is fine for the furnace but as I need to run the furnace and kiln at the same time I wasn't sure that would be enough to power both. Do you have a kiln and a furnace that you run at the same time?
     
  5. Metal5000

    Metal5000 Copper

    Hey Jeff,
    Thanks for the welcome :c)

    I can completely concur that making a living at this is not easy, but I do love the challenge! The web site is a work in progress, just need to get more content up and do a ton of SEO stuff that I don't understand.

    I have another video that I'm editing now and will hopefully upload to YouTube in a couple of days. I'll be sure to put my YouTube channel up in that section.

    Many thanks,
    Ian.
     
  6. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Welcome Ian.... Yeah I guess it's kinda my fault Ian found us. He would have sooner or later. :p
    I saw a video of his and I swear he cast a BUTT PLUG of all things.:eek:

     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  7. Metal5000

    Metal5000 Copper

    Well there may be a market in aluminium alloy butt plugs, however I'm not so sure of possible health issues. I had told Jason that this is a prototype casting for a coffee tamper, but nobody is ever going to believe me now.

    Thanks Jason ;cD LOL
     
  8. Jason

    Jason Gold

    No worries... The BP is pretty much the joke around here. I made one as a joke and mailed it to our fearless leader. He might like an upgrade by now I bet. Yours is much nicer.
     
  9. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Yes I run them at the same time but I use BBQ tanks to power them. Expensive but there isn't natural gas on my street. I think rasper uses gas lines to power his furnace and stuff.

    I'd say just build the kiln and try it out if it doesn't work you can use propane gas or bake molds first then melt and pour.
    20190126_183135.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  10. Metal5000

    Metal5000 Copper

    Maybe it could be an award system, like:-

    "And the aluminium butt plug goes to..."

    Moving up through the metals
     
  11. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Domestic gas pressure is not a problem at all buddy. I run a forge at home on natural gas and I can fart more pressure than what comes into my house!

    Look at this knarly flame! Costs pennies per hr to run at home on ng.
    If ya want to see the build, ya gotta go back to where ya came from. http://www.alloyavenue.com/vb/showthread.php?11974-Now-I-need-a-FORGE-What-next&highlight=forge
    I use a microwave blower motor on it. It's a ribbon burner. If you decide to build one, get with me. It's very stable and works excellent, but there is a very specific reason for the way it's built. That long pipe is serving an important purpose. For my bronze work, I use an old electric kiln to heat the shells to 1700.




     
    joe yard likes this.
  12. Metal5000

    Metal5000 Copper

    Thanks for getting back to me Zapins.
    I did have a similar idea to this. After getting everything built and plumbed in to the gas line, get the moulds de-waxed and fired, then start the furnace to melt the brass or bronze and keep the furnace at the optimum temperature, but sacrifice the kiln temperature in favour of the furnace. If that makes sense.

    I don't know if the admin maybe would like to move this to a new thread.
     
  13. Metal5000

    Metal5000 Copper

    Hey Jason,
    The forge looks really efficient, I was amazed at how hot my furnace got on NG.
    If I can run both the furnace and the kiln at the same time I would be very happy. But like Zapins says, just try it out and see how it goes. The steel box I have is quite large, maybe 3 x 3.5 x 4 foot, so the energy needed to get it up to 1700F (927C) would be considerable. To avoid having to make a spread sheet from hell to try to work it all out, I'll just build it.
     
  14. Jason

    Jason Gold

    What burner are you running on ng? I'm curious because some day, I'd like to build a pair of ribbon burners and install them in a new furnace. NG would be my #1 choice, but for now, I've got a bottom less barrel of jet fuel and used motor oil. Free is free after all!
     
  15. Metal5000

    Metal5000 Copper

    Yes free is the best price for sure.
    This is the burner I'm using, but I only use the compressed air line when I'm do brazing or whatever, which is rare. I have a 650W bouncy castle blower that is massive overkill. I have a 'T' bypass arangment where the excess air comes out to avoid overloading the motor. I'm using an old gas gate valve to regulate.

    https://www.flamefast.co.uk/hot-metal-found/3070-gas-torches.html

    I'm sure that you can find a similar or better torch States side. If you use this type of torch you must install proper non-return valves to both the compressed air and gas lines.
     
  16. Jason

    Jason Gold

    I dont know why I didnt think of using compressed air. :rolleyes:

    That burner is a pretty nice bit of kit, but 130k btu's is kinda small for what I need.. I haven't done the math on my ribbon burner, but I would estimate it's around 400k. Scale can be very deceiving in photos and video. That flame in my video above is 4feet long! My ng pressure here is a piddly 7" water column. I attribute its massive output because I dont have safety return valves slowing down the show either. Because of the way it's designed, there is next to zero possibility it could burn back. That said, I'd never risk selling it to anyone; the theory is as safe as houses.

    Thanks for showing me that link, I'm interested in learning more about it. I own what's called a turbo torch here in the states that only burns acetylene. Used for brazing etc, it's a friggen beast but would take 2 years to melt a pot of bronze.
     
  17. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    The kiln I made is 3x3x3 foot and I have to turn down the gas to maybe 1/8th to 1/10th the flow I need to melt bronze. You really don't need a lot of flow just a constant even flow. Too hot and you'll warp the metal grating that the shells sit on. I went with 316L stainless because it has the highest deformation point if the steels that is readily available for purchase. There's a guy who made his out of mild steel and it warped very badly after only a few melts.

    I have to finish my temperature controller for the gas kiln so I can keep the temp where it needs to be and not let it get too hot that it warps my SS.
     
  18. Jason

    Jason Gold

    But that's also propane isn't it Zap?
     
  19. OMM

    OMM Silver

    Ian. Pretty nice castings! I look forward to seeing more of your work.

    On a sidenote, usually on the bouncy castle blowers you can choke the intake and this makes the motor work less with a free spin blower. The only time this does not work is when the blower A secondary blower to cool the motor. Generally if you choke the intake amperage decreases into the motor. A lot of people assume when you put your hand over a vacuum intake and you hear that high spin noise of the motor, this is harming the motor. It is actually opposite. The motor is spinning faster as it has (less) no work to do, or load on it.
     
  20. OMM

    OMM Silver

    Jason, typically NG is delivered at to residential 15 to 60 PSI. After the regulator 7 -10 ”water column is normal. Most NG appliances will work barely down to 4” water column. 7 inches of water column is about 1/4 psi. Most regulators on the outside of Buildings have a safety check valve that if you exceed five psi because of back flame you might have a little mini torch in that big gray box.

    In most residential it should rarely ever exceed 7” WC. When I tested mine last year it was bang on 7”. Your maximum BTU would be dictated by this chart. I have a 1 inch feedline off my regulator. The best I can get based on this chart is 387,000 BTU for my old building or one dedicated device if the feedline is less than 10 feet. But, if I used all 387,000 BTU, it would choke all my other appliances from running efficiently. What size line do you have feeding your building and feeding the ribbon torch? I’ve done some work in residential that have four-inch feedline to the homes. But these homes would cover my whole property.

    4C028F17-4244-464D-9B1B-3B1DC40085A5.jpeg
     

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