Lift off Body or lid Beer Keg furnace?

Discussion in 'Furnaces and their construction' started by crazybillybob, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. crazybillybob

    crazybillybob Silver Banner Member

    I'm getting ready to build my new furnace. I have the Keg, some koawool, and IFB.
    My biggest crucible is an A12 at current.
    My first furnace was a 5 gallon bucket with a lift off lid. I think the biggest crucible that fit in it was an A4?
    This will be a propane burner furnace.
    I do most of my casting alone. What I'm wondering is if I should make the new furnace a lift body or just a lid?
    I don't plan on filling the A12 with Bronze (I think the A6 is the biggest bronze pour I want to deal with).
    So the A12 would be aluminum only.
    Any advise one way or the other is appreciated.

    Bruce
     
  2. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    The neatest furnace i have seen was one that tilted half the body on about a 45 deg angle to expose the crucible for either dip out or lift out.
    It was Junkyard over on AA who owned two of these furnaces....
     
  3. crazybillybob

    crazybillybob Silver Banner Member

    Too bad everything over there is forbidden. I can't take a look and see if it's feasible.
    I guess I'm asking if an A12 full of aluminum is too much to lift up 24" alone?
    I don't think I'm a good enough fab guy to make an awesome lift system like Kelly. So it's going to be all muscle power here.
     
  4. Jason

    Jason Gold

    I'm still fond of this design. Why life more weight than absolutely necessary?

    I think his tuyere is too high.. But that's easily solved.

    s-l1608.jpg
     
    John Homer likes this.
  5. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    My only real complaint with the lid furnace is the 2 part lifting and pouring operation. Other than that I really like the lid version because it gives me full view of the melt surface and allows relatively easy loading of material that wont fit through the exhaust hole. I also skim in the furnace (mostly) and I feel better about my crucible rocking in an enclosed environment than out in the open where it could potentially tip over. How about a combo deal?
    Edit: How many lbs is an A12?
    Pete
     
  6. rocco

    rocco Silver

    Not everything is forbidden, no pics but you can still read about it :rolleyes:. http://www.alloyavenue.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-12267.html
     
  7. Jason

    Jason Gold

    I do like opening the lid to skim too. After, I close up for another 2mins then pour. Heres a thought, a big top hole and a removable refractory ring to neck it down to proper exhaust hole size? Maybe even flip up?
     
  8. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    12lbs + Crucible :)

    Here's Junkyard's........it also has a lid and a pneumatic actuator for tilt. He uses an open ring shank to snatch and pour in one motion and he's who turned me on to them.

    Tilter.jpg

    Best,
    Kelly
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
    Jimmymmm likes this.
  9. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    I really like mine but it's a long way to go if you don't love building.

    If you made a Satanite coated ceramic fiber furnace ala Bonz', the sections would easily be light enough to handle by hand. You could also build a tilter like Junkyards in the post above out of a small garbage can with the same method and have the best of all worlds.

    FWIW, I handle an A20 full of aluminum OK, an A12 should be no sweat.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  10. crazybillybob

    crazybillybob Silver Banner Member

    I'm leaning toward sticking with the lift lid design. I like Junkyard's design if I ever have the need to go an A20+ Maybe I'll dive in to that.
    The IFB's I bought were only 3/4" (19mm) thick. My thoughts were to try can keep this thing as light as possible. After seeing how well the saitanite held up in my forge I plan on giving the inside of this furnace an quick coat figure it will help seal in the kaowool and save the IFB when I over cook them.
     
  11. Jason

    Jason Gold

    The hinge is broken on my kiln. I hate lifting that hot heavy bastard off there. Then you have to stick it somewhere that you wont set on fire!:eek:
     
  12. Hey Bruce,
    I recently changed my design inspiration from a gingerly lifting mech to something that I found when skimming the Artful Bodger's furance site ( currently down?). This picture was in his homedesign gallery, featuring a pretty slick lifting furance . Some dude named Bob Hunt. After that I found kelly's and then realized that he was Al2O3! (Mind blown for a newbie making connections).

    This might be a nice half way pont between fancy hinge and Kelly's Pseudo- Industrial furance. I'm not sure what your fab abilities are but both will require some.

    Gingerly Style
    gingery quarter cross section.JPG

    gingery cross section.JPG

    Bob Hunt simple lifter
    Bob hunt artful bodger waste oil burner.jpg Bob hunt artful bodger waste oil burner 4.jpg Bob hunt artful bodger waste oil burner 2 with gingery opening mech.jpg
     
    joe yard likes this.
  13. Jason

    Jason Gold

    SIMPLE????? smh...:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
  14. crazybillybob

    crazybillybob Silver Banner Member

    My fab abilities are ok. But the problem right now is too many projects not enough time. I'll most likely put a swing lid on it. I've killed a bunch of grass setting the lid of the 5 Gallon furnace on a fire brick while I pour. I'm not sure I want to have to man handle a bigger hot object :p.
     
    John Homer likes this.
  15. garyhlucas

    garyhlucas Silver

    The lid on my commercial furnace tilts up about 3" and latches, then turns to the side in either direction on a pin. Can't imagine why all that mechanism is needed for just opening the lid. There is a second smaller lid on the main lid too with an open opening just about the size of the crucible so you can charge the furnace without messing up the swirling flow out the SIDE exhaust. I set a stainless bowl in that opening which covers the top of the crucible and preheat the next charge, saving some gas and ensuring nothing wet goes in the crucible.
     
    Jimmymmm likes this.
  16. Hey Gary,
    If I am understading your description correctly, I think it might be that they want the refractory or insulation fascing down instead of sideways (facing you) to reduce reflected heat on you when you are lifting thing out of the crucible. I've never used one with that design but that's my guess.
     
  17. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Gold Banner Member

    Could be that, and/or maybe it's just kinda heavy for a flip-up lid... Ive got one of each and I never feel like the flip-up lid on my newer furnace is cooking me or anything like that when I go to pull the crucible.

    Jeff
     
  18. garyhlucas

    garyhlucas Silver

    The hot bottom side of my lid never comes up more than 3" above the edge of the furnace. So no heat from the lid. The lid has a pointed bar sticking out the front and I slide a piece of pipe over it to lift the lid the 3" and turn it sideways. I don't leave it there so it doesn't get hot either.
     
  19. garyhlucas

    garyhlucas Silver

    I can get an electric kiln from a friend cheap. Maybe remove the lid hinges, turn it upside down and put a plinth on the lid for the crucible and make a lifting mechanism?
     
  20. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    I might have 5 to 10 lbs of metal pieces on my lid at any given time pre heating or staged to go in the furnace and my lift/pivot mechanism handles the 1" lift and swing just fine. I'm spoiled by that. Especially in the heat of a summer day, I just don't need one more calorie in my face. The furnace has enough mass and sits on a triangular base. The lid has a swing limit, just far enough to fully expose the bore, and the feet are spaced such that a tipover would be extremely unlikely.
    With my little bucket furnace I just left the lid off and set it on a dry firebrick.

    Pete
     

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