Carbon Monoxide Poisoning

Discussion in 'General foundry chat' started by Jim Edgeworth, Jan 2, 2021.

  1. Jim Edgeworth

    Jim Edgeworth Silver

    A word of warning to anyone running their furnace indoors!
    Yesterday afternoon (1st Jan), I did something really stupid; it was a very cold day and I decided to fire up the propane powered furness INSIDE the workshop, (I would normally work outside in the open air).

    I took precautions by clearing space around the furnace and the casting area and convinced myself that as I was only melting a small batch of aluminium that all would be ok. It was only 15 minutes after lighting the furnace that I began to feel a bit unwell, so I opened the door to walk the 5 metres to the house where I intended to have a sit down and recover. I took about four strides before collapsing on the ground where I was unconscious for a good 5 minutes and even when I came to, it took another several minutes before I could get to my feet.
    I managed to go back to the workshop and turn the gas off to the furnace which was near the door, then went to the house to sit down. I couldn’t speak and was very groggy, then felt sick so I managed to get to the bathroom where I vomited. By this time my wife had called one of my daughters who lives close by and when she arrived, she called for an ambulance. A specialist paramedic arrive first and put me on oxygen while he did some tests which found my CO level to be 27, 1 to 5 is normal for a non smoker. At that, he called for a regular ambulance to take me to the general hospital. On arriving at the hospital, the A&E consultant told the ambulance people to take me straight into resuscitation where I remained on oxygen for 6 hours while a variety of doctors and nurses did blood tests, blood pressure, temperature, heart rate and an ECG. The blood test was repeated and only when it showed a CO level of 5, did the A&E consultant let me go home.
    While I was well aware of carbon monoxide poisoning, I was surprised at how quickly I was overcome by it. If I hadn’t made it out of the workshop before collapsing (a matter of seconds), I wouldn’t be writing this warning to you, it was that close. So please, make sure that you work in a well ventilated area, and if you start to feel unwell, GET THE HELL OUT!

    With the current Covid 19 pandemic stretching the British National Health Service to its limits, the service that I received from all of the NHS staff, was nothing short of exemplary and FREE.
     
    Jason and dennis like this.
  2. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    That makes for a really bad start to the new year.
    Glad to hear that your ok.
     
  3. Jim Edgeworth

    Jim Edgeworth Silver

    There is a lot of truth in the saying David “There is no Fool Like an Old Fool”.
    I just hope that others learn by my mistake.
     
  4. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Wow, close call. Glad you are OK.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  5. Jim Edgeworth

    Jim Edgeworth Silver

    Too close for comfort Kelly, it sure as hell won’t happen again.
     
  6. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    Boy that was a close one. It's a blessing your wife didn't have to find you in that state.
    It goes to show that even a fellow with his wits about him can get snuck up on.

    Regards for a safe and happy new year!

    Pete
     
  7. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Carbon monoxide is a booger. Glad you made it ok.
     
  8. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    And THANK YOU for having the courage to share your experience. Doing so may save a life. You’ll never know. But, it just might.

    Denis
     
    dennis and DavidF like this.
  9. Way too close for comfort, that's as close as you can get without dying, a very narrow escape.
     
  10. dtsh

    dtsh Silver

    Yeah, CO is to be taken seriously. When I was a young boy, I was helping my uncle work on his car in the garage. After a bit I got a little woozy and the next thing I remembered was waking up in the snow, with my uncle staring down at my calling my name.
     
  11. Fasted58

    Fasted58 Silver

    Glad you made it out in time and are OK.

    I've approached 'knockdown' before with hydrogen sulfide and whatever gas generated by cutting PVC with a wafer disc is. The lights started going out, so GTFO time. I was just dumb lucky.

    Thanks for sharing. Take notes folks.
     
  12. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Gold Banner Member

    Yikes, that is really scary! Glad to hear you made it out.

    Fear of CO kept me melting and pouring outdoors for several years, and that's the safest bet for sure.

    Finally my casting days got rained out one too many times and I began melting and casting indoors. I installed a 15" attic fan up near the roof peak at the furnace end of my 12x16 casting shed and I keep a CO monitor clipped to my leather apron when running the furnace in there. There is usually a spike (once or twice it went over 50ppm, where I have an alarm set) at startup, but more often it hits 20-40 tops. It has always dropped back down to 0 or occasionally as much as 10 after just a minute or two and stays at low to none like that for the rest of the burn time. The pamphlet that came with my monitor says 50ppm is the safe maximum for a place where people work 8h shifts, and the furnace usually only runs for maybe 20 minutes give or take, so I figured 50 was a good place to set the alarm to stay well on the safe side. When it does go off (rare) I either play around with opening and closing eaxlch of the 3 shed doors to try and get a favourable breeze to help clear it out, or step just outside for a minute then go back in to get another reading, which seems to be just as effective. So far so good, but I'm always trying to think of ways to improve my setup even further.

    Play safe!

    Jeff
     
  13. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Welcome back! Glad you're okay! And it's not just furnace's like we use too! I've got a natural gas heater running out in the garage these days, but I like to open the garage door for a couple of minutes after a few of hours.

    Here is a cheap little something that can be placed in the vicinity where this may be a problem. Piston airplane guys usually have these stuck somewhere in the cockpit because of the way heaters work and exhaust leaks happen. The orange pellet turns grayish, but the problem is after exposure, it turns back to orange in half a day. Then I can tell you after about 3 activations, it will never turn gray again. So it's one of those things that has to be actively monitored and replaced occasionally. Only reason I know this happens, we exposed one on purpose during training and suddenly it didn't work anymore. Very weird!

    https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/stdcodetectors.php

    09-35600a.jpg
     
  14. Peedee

    Peedee Silver

    I only mentioned this the other day, I had a car that got a rear end shunt and was essentially written off but being young I carried on driving it. What I hadn't realised was the exhaust was leaking into the car.

    Took an age to convince the doctors I was mentally stable and it wasn't deliberate. I was sick for days.

    I'm glad to see you back in one piece, and yes, our NHS is pretty amazing thank god!
     
    dennis likes this.
  15. metallab

    metallab Silver

    Indeed this is a stark warning.
    I have a CO detector in my living room, because we have a wood stove.

    For melting metals indoors I use the fume hood with ventilation activated which drives off CO as well. I use forced air natural gas which enhances complete combustion.
    For larger batches I melt outdoors.
     
  16. Peedee

    Peedee Silver

    • Those CO detectors we had in the pipers were ancient Jason, they were never my look at ..... with Bob flying I had more concerns about crashing than CO
     
    Jason likes this.
  17. rocco

    rocco Silver

    That cheap insurance for sure, too bad they don't make any noise when they go off.
     
  18. Jim Edgeworth

    Jim Edgeworth Silver

    0AD68080-7FA9-43FC-AC3C-B05C000B1482.jpeg This is being fitted in the workshop (locking the stable door after the horse has bolted):D
     
    Jason likes this.
  19. Jason

    Jason Gold

    They do no good if you don't occasionally look at it and when you park the plane. Because if that thing turned grey, it will be orange the next day.

    I just had a smoke detector at home start to beep. I pulled it down and my wife asked if I painted it. Of course not, it's 10years old and they yellow. In the trash they all went.
    New ones now have CO detectors. Cheap insurance, but the voice alarm is kinda dumb. I like they are now using AA's, as I never have a 9vt when I need it.
     
  20. Jim Edgeworth

    Jim Edgeworth Silver

    E9F752C0-6A06-498F-8E54-ADE6641DA26C.jpeg And this one is fitted to the aircraft
    They are good, a friend of mine was taxiing to the runway in a piper Cherokee when he noticed the dot was black, on inspection he found an exhaust stub had fractured. The only problem with them is “No Audible Warning”, you have to look.
     
    Jason likes this.

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