Recommendations for a burner

Discussion in 'Burners and their construction' started by John Homer, Jan 18, 2021.

  1. John Homer

    John Homer Silver

    Devil Forge are all built in Lithuania. I believe.
     
  2. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Point is, until you can build them and sell them at the same price point........
    DONT YOU HAVE A SINK TO FINISH ?
     
    John Homer likes this.
  3. Jason

    Jason Gold

    I think you're right John, but most of the parts are off the shelf chinese.

    Don't you have a rusty old car to finish!
     
    John Homer likes this.
  4. Billy Elmore

    Billy Elmore Silver

    Yall are cracking me up! Cant be chuckling out loud here or they will know I am crazy. Yes sir... I was talking about two burners but I was talking about a little bigger furnace and I was also thinking two micro burners may be more efficient than one especially with a side vent. I reckon you done about talked me into it now. If somebody was having issues getting it to work I kinda need to know why...seems pretty simple to me. Hell I was thinking about four to get a super vortex in the center for rapid melt. Anybody tried that?
     
    John Homer likes this.
  5. dennis

    dennis Silver

    Charles Hones' "buzzer" crucible furnace - a commercial unit - runs 3 burners. Used for aluminum/zinc, if the PDF brochure/catalog is accurate.

    https://charlesahones.com/oven-furnaces/

    Oh, correction: their pot furnace does run four burners.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
    Billy Elmore likes this.
  6. Billy Elmore

    Billy Elmore Silver

    Only 61,000 dollars...Im in the wrong damn business. But now I know I am heading in the right direction. Thanks Dennis!
     
    John Homer likes this.
  7. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    That's a pretty interesting range of products and their site has pricing......a rarity these days. Buzzer burners look to be just their flavor of venturi burners.....all natural gas or propane. They do have very long deleivery/mixing tubes in their pipe burners.....way longer than 10x diameters.
    If the goal is to have a reliable iron melting furnace I think your time may be better invested into a single oil burner and some phos bonded refractory, but if it incremental gains or just to build something different here are a couple things to consider.

    On the subject of side vs top vent I don't think there's much to be gained except convenience of where the gas exits though as you say, you may find for your specific combo better ability to tune your burn. Otherwise, it's just fuel in and hot gas out, and it needs to come out somewhere and that is loss. The thermal efficiency of fuel fired furnaces is very low......<<<30% and in most cases <20% meaning you're only able to transfer that much of the theoretical energy available from the fuel burn to your melt.

    For multiple burners, I think there is more merit in larger furnaces. The first issue is keeping them in tune and the potential for them to interfere with each other. If you use naturally aspirated burners, the ejector/venturi can be very sensitive to down stream pressure variations, like lid on or off the furnace. Same is true of forced air if the blower cant develop much head pressure. So if one burner runs lean and the other rich, you may see vent gas that looks neutral but have lower temps. I think the primary reason you see the multiple burners in MIFCO furnaces is more a matter of practicality, especially if you only have low pressure natural gas because the burners become physically very large so plumbing and introducing them becomes more cumbersome. There's a similar discussion to be had around oil burners but sort of depends on which style.

    Good luck with it...should be fun.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
    Billy Elmore likes this.
  8. Billy Elmore

    Billy Elmore Silver

    Good point Kelly...the trick is definitely going to be trying to get exhaust out while retaining the heat. Probably not that easy.LOL I have smothered my flame out with my lid and it is not fun. I am seeing the effects of lid on and off with my furnace at this very moment. I havent had a chance to do a cold start test melt on aluminum with the lid off yet to make a comparison but at this moment I think I can be more efficient with the lid on and nearly completely closed vent but can melt much faster with vent open..and maybe even faster with the lid off. I dont think there is a right or wrong...just whether you want to be fast and furious and create more wear on the equipment or slow and steady and gently bring the equipment up to temp. If I start the furnace while I am making molds I can be slow and steady but if I need to make a part real quick or just want to pour some molds already made I can go fast and furious. I need that flexibility to reduce limitations....and so I can get back in the house sooner if the boss is coming down too hard on me. She is only two so she has not learned supervision and human relation skills yet.. although manipulation she has mastered.
     
  9. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    I think if you went forced air, with a blower that could develop higher static pressures, that sensitivity to the lid being on or off would all but go away because you don't have the ejector's sensitivity to downstream pressure. It also decouples the dependency between the gas and air streams so you can control each independently. That usually means a broader and more stable range of tune......but it's just a matter of how objectionable you find the addition of electricity and fan.....but they can definitely generate more heat than venturi burners.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  10. dennis

    dennis Silver

    Better mixing of fuel and air?
     
    John Homer likes this.
  11. Bldr J

    Bldr J Copper

    I have the burners and all the controls out of one of their pot furnaces with the "buzzer burners", it's actually for a salt bath - 2000F I think:
    IMG_0096 (Medium).jpg
    Because it has a pot, it's able to have the exhaust downdraft. I originally posted in my intro, thinking it was for high pressure nat. gas, but the valves are only rated for 1 psi max, and there is a regulator on it, so maybe there's something to it:
    IMG_4293 (Medium).jpg
    picture of the burner flare/end:
    IMG_4290 (Medium).jpg
    The outer ring brings in air in addition to the air sucked in by the venturi.
    I'd be happy to give any more pictures or info, but you'll have to wait a few weeks for me to get them into my build first to see a fire. I'm going to try using two of them, instead of the three that were used for the larger pot that it came with.
    The furnace was going to get scrapped and I only had an hour to take what I could from it, so all I got were the burners.
    I did read that 60% of crucible heating is from radiant heat -- is that only with high-mass furnaces/hotfaces? Is that where the advantage of side exhaust comes in?
    I know very little...just learning!
    I also have some of their ribbon burners and smaller "buzzers" if anyone wants some more info/pictures.
     
    OMM likes this.
  12. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    I liked their product offering (prices aside) and that kind of burner info is always good so please do post up as time permits.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  13. OMM

    OMM Silver

    I have two burners. And I start them up on diesel fuel. They stay burning on diesel fuel or I can switch them to waste vegetable oil (or waste motor oil) five minutes after it gets hot. When I do the switch the burn always becomes a little bit lean for 10 seconds. Once it mellows out I readjust the new fuel rate, but I keep the air rate at the same. I pressurize my fuel tanks to 40 psi. And the waste vegetable oil I've now been using a 200w block heater on the side of the tank, this just keeps the viscosity closer and to the diesel fuel.

    At the end of the burn I switch back to diesel to clean the lines. Sometimes I forget. Then I do it afterwards. The witches brew I save and just add it to the next WVO tank burn.

    I also save my old Varsol, paint thinner, Xylene and waste motor oil. I add about two quarts of filtered crap to 2 gallons of waste vegetable oil. Then light it up. I do believe this is called recycling.
     
    John Homer likes this.
  14. OMM

    OMM Silver

    Take your time and figure out the gem that you just got. A forced air downdraft furnace I would like to see more information about.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
    John Homer likes this.
  15. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Look at that thing! Does it make liquor too??
     
    OMM likes this.
  16. OMM

    OMM Silver

    If it made as a safe liquor. It would be worth 10 times.... I work part time as the maintenance guy for a DYI winery. I do OK being on call. But the DIY winery does pretty good as well.
     
    Jason likes this.
  17. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    What exactly is a diy winery??
     
  18. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    In time that would be great. I'd like to see a schematic if anyone can find one. Might be a two-stage ejector. 1 psi isn't much motivation for the venturi in an NA burner. Also sort of interesting they have 90 degree turn at the end....must be for packaging convenience.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  19. dennis

    dennis Silver

    Guess (regarding wine production): this facility enables people who wish to produce, say, a cask or three of "table wine" in an afternoon, rather than 6 weeks of evenings and weekends, with a more-likely outcome as well for flavor, etc.

    Presuming, of course, you like wine.

    The idea above came from "licenced" distilleries in Central Europe, e.g. Slovakia, where rural dwellers can make up their slivovice/cold medicine in relative safety. Slivovice involves distillation, unlike wine; and therefore, the foreshots - the first portion of a distilling run - contains methanol.
     
  20. OMM

    OMM Silver

    Do it yourself. It is a little bit like brew your own but done in a facility. 30 different flavours to choose from dedication to a batch. Who knew you can turn $20 worth of grapes into $200 dummy johns with a six week wait. 87123CB8-829D-4D41-891B-FC4BCA7B24EB.jpeg
     

Share This Page