Motorbike Prototype Zylinder

Discussion in 'Sand Casting' started by hatta, Aug 18, 2022.

  1. hatta

    hatta Silver

    Hi Folks,

    As mentioned in my first Post, here I will post my project.

    I plan to cast a new prototype alumimium cylinder for an old motorbike. My target is to get a cylinder, that produces more power and less exhaust gases.

    This project startet about 12 years ago (when I was way to young), and it's time to get on.

    Right now I have started to make the core out of wax. With dental silicon I want to make a form for the core out of the wax positive.
    Then I plan to make a second core positiv out of epoxy resin that I can mashine exactly to proof he intakes etc. open exactly at the same time.

    For the outside of the cylinder I plan to reform the actual zylinder in dental silicon, then cast a positive out of wax.
    This wax positive i can work over, cange some things and then make a resin positiv.

    It sound's easy, but I think there are lots of things I will struggle with :rolleyes:

    When I'm ar home next time I make some pics of my wax core.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 18, 2022
    FishbonzWV, Tops and Tobho Mott like this.
  2. hatta

    hatta Silver

    So here the first trye to make a core out of moddeling wax.

    Threr canals are missing now, I trye to find more time to get on.

    It's the right half of the core.
    The left will look mostly the same, but the exhaust port will bea little bit more of center.

    I think i will have to orther the dental silicone soon :cool:
     

    Attached Files:

  3. hatta

    hatta Silver

    One question:

    Do you think it's good to make a two piece core, or should I better make the whole core out of more pieces for example out of the two cylinders and then glue the canals on to that cylinders? o_O
     
  4. hatta

    hatta Silver

    Hi folks,

    Long time nothing happened :rolleyes:, but I've changee my mind and invested in some things. The hand modelling is not precise enough for me and way to much time consuming.

    I got me a iPad and shapr3D software and yesterday I began with modelling parts of the core.
    Shapr3D has a short learning curve, so after one or two hours i had finaly the first part finished.

    I'm planing to make the core out of more pieces and glue them together, that solves the most of the problems with making a corebox.

    I can 3D print the coreboxes for every part.

    Here's my first part finished in CAD (Shapr3D)
     

    Attached Files:

    Tops likes this.
  5. crazybillybob

    crazybillybob Silver Banner Member

    I use a 3d printer for some of my more complicated Core boxes. I draw up the core. Then draw a box (or whatever shape gets around the core with plenty of room I like 1/2 -3/4" on all sides but that could be overkill. ) make sure you have some flats to clamp onto. Then I subtract the core from the box. Then I split the box. If I'm feeling fancy or if there are tight areas that could flex I add some alignment pins. I print it out sand, paint ,wax and pack it with Sodium Silicate sand Gas it (epoxy bonded works too). Pop them out bake them or let them sit a day or two to get full hardness.
     
    Tops and hatta like this.
  6. hatta

    hatta Silver

    I'm working hard on my CAD skills, and Shapr3D makes it relativ easy:cool:

    The port's are finished...
     

    Attached Files:

    BattyZ likes this.
  7. hatta

    hatta Silver

    Some progress ...

    The intake, the finns and two auxilary ports are missing.
    Hope to finish the cad work until new year.
     

    Attached Files:

    Billy Elmore and Tops like this.
  8. hatta

    hatta Silver

    A few steps later.

    The core is nearly finished and I can "fine tune it"

    The positive modell misses it's fins and some overwork and camfering in some edges for better deforming when making the mould.

    When that's done, the coreboxes can be made (should be easy in cad) and then I can send the files to a company for 3D Printing.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Having never “sent out” a 3D printing job, how do you pick a company to do it? What sort of minimum smoothness and accuracy parameters can you specify?

    Denis
     
  10. hatta

    hatta Silver

    I don't own a printer by my self, so I have to give away the job.

    The company in germany is working with HP multijet fusion powder printer.
    They deliver parta with every smoothnes parameter you want, nearly high gloss.

    But thats not a Problem for me, I'm a professional Car Painter and can paint and sand the parts and give them a higl gloss finish.

    All important parameters have to be mashined after casting.
     
  11. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    hatta likes this.
  12. hatta

    hatta Silver

    I dont know about the cost now.
    When my cad work is finished, I can ask.
     
  13. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Please let us know when you get a quote.

    Denis
     
    hatta likes this.
  14. hatta

    hatta Silver

    Yep, I will :cool:
     
  15. hatta

    hatta Silver

    The work for the positive to mold the outside of the cylinder is 99% finished.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. hatta

    hatta Silver

    So the pricing for the printing with hp jet fusion is exorbitant expensiveo_O:(

    For the cylinder as shown above, the price is about 1.600 € :eek:

    The norlal PLA printing wil cost about 250€ ... that's allot cheaper.

    I'm thinking of buying a 3D printer... because I have to print more...so the Price will be the same:confused: and a priter is allways nice to have:cool:
     
    Melterskelter likes this.
  17. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Well, let’s be careful with terminology.:) Expensive! Yes? Exorbitant? Maybe not.

    You have drawn some really fine and really finely detailed models. Well done!

    Using a fusion printer probably ( no experience here) would convert them in to precisely rendered prints that would be true to dimensions and straightness etc. That would require many hours print time and substantial, probably costly, media. But you would have a very fine pattern. How much post finishing would be required would be an interesting question. Would it just need some paint and wax or would there be more needed to make those long deep grooves between fins draw?

    Should you buy printers to make these patterns yourself?: I think that is reasonably possible but may require some practical experience before you come up with a usable pattern. On large complex parts there often is at least mild warping that can occur both with resin prints and filament prints. Rendering of detail is better in resin prints and speed and ruggedness are better yet in filament. That is why I use a combination of both resin and filament when making patterns. I render find details in resin in the form of insertable plates and print the rest and filament. So far that’s been working pretty well.

    I really do think that with your drawing skills and likely future projects that are going to come up, that purchasing both a resin and a filament printer maybe a good plan. Speaking only from my personal experience I can tell you that I am extremely pleased with being able to draw up and then print patterns cor boxes etc. that fit my specifications exactly and can be quickly modified. I could easily see you having your drawing printed only to discover a need to modify it for some unforeseen reasons.

    One other thing that occurred to me as I looked at your renderings was the possibility of 3-D printing the Central main body of the pattern with the idea of adding on aluminum machined films just for ease of manufacture and strengths good morning how are you doing

    Onward!

    Denis
     
    Chazza and hatta like this.
  18. hatta

    hatta Silver

    Yes you're absolutely right, the quality with jet fusion can't be compared to ceaper 3D printers. So the price isn't that expensive.
    But for my needs... especialy for this prottype it's notthat important.

    If the prototype works well, I'm really thinking of a jet fusion Print for producing more of these cylinders.


    I found a guy near my village and he offered me that he can print it for me :)
    He is allso interested in casting ....so I Think it's worth a trye:cool:
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2022
    Tops and Chazza like this.
  19. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    To the point of trying to print your own patterns vs hiring it out: Today I was finalizing modeling my pattern for the core that will form letter on an angle brace I am going to cast. And, by simple oversight, offset the letters .030 from the center line. I could not/did not notice this until I had resin printed the face in question. I was annoyed as I thought I had done this right in the computer. But, nope! So, yes, I was grumbling a bit, but all I had to do was reprint the piece and glue it to another base part. It would have been so much more painful had I been forced to pay a decent amount of money and wait a few days to rectify the mistake.

    Here is an image of the corrected part—-bluish in color. The rectangular recess will be filled with silicone rubber as that will allow me to draw the core even if the letters have minimal draft. The rest of the core box is formed by the two reddish/orange pieces which will have dowel pins and screws for registration and closure respectively.
    84281B77-40D4-4FF3-9405-040EFC007129.jpeg Te

    Denis
     
    hatta and Chazza like this.
  20. hatta

    hatta Silver

    That's the reason I'm hardly thinking about get a FlSun super racer 3D printer.

    I'm preparing the model for printing.
    Out of the core I gona make the coreboxes in CAD and prepair everything for printing.

    Who knows... mabe santa (in austria we dont have santa claus... we have the "christ kind" which means Jesus as a child) send's a 3D printer for christmas :rolleyes:

    Here's the finished model with two tiny failures, but these can be corected when it's printed.:cool:
     

    Attached Files:

    Tops likes this.

Share This Page