Burner question: Delavan siphon nozzle based

Discussion in 'Burners and their construction' started by Bentation Funkiloglio, May 20, 2020.

  1. I'm building an oil burner for the first time based on Dave Allen design. I am starting with a 30609-9 .85 gph siphon nozzle. Nozzle came with the siphon nozzle adapter, the elbow that connects to adapter (1/8 NPT oil intake), and an inverted flare brass nut that fits into the open end of elbow (after elbow is a connected to adapter).

    Easy enough to find 1/4 inch pipe online for the adapter air intake (compressed air). However, I can't find anything that connects to elbow via that inverted flare nut (for oil line). I hoped that a break line might work, but went to local auto store and couldn't find one that fit.

    Here is my question. Would it be problematic if did the following?

    Replace the elbow that came with the adapter with one from my local hardware store? If I were to do this, then I could connect a nipple and a 1/8 in x 1/4 inch coupling (or equivalent) to new elbow thereby allowing me to use a 1/4 inch pipe as oil line.

    Seems like it should be fine since the oil line isn't pressurized, right? Would there be any foreseeable problems with this set-up?
     
  2. FishbonzWV

    FishbonzWV Silver Banner Member

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  3. Appreciate the input @FishbonzWV!

    In as much as I understand how flare fittings are used, I believe that I need one of two things (if I decide to use flared fitting).

    1. A pipe that is already flared and has the connection nut (not sure what it is called) on it. In this scenario, I wouldn't use the brass nut that came with the adapter. Instead, the nut already attached to flared pipe attaches to the elbow.

    Using a break line would fit into this category.

    2. Find 1/8 inch pipe (probably copper), slide provided brass nut (that came with elbow) onto pipe, and then make the flare myself.

    Unfortunately, I don't have the tools handy to do this. Also, my local hardware stores don't appear to have 1/8 copper pipe available in store.

    At the moment, I haven't found a break line that would work with my 1/8 elbow. Also, (as mentioned above), I don't have the tools or copper pipe to create my own flared pipe. Hence, the conundrum.

    This is why, I'm looking for alternatives such as the one described in my post.
    Please feel free to correct anything that I've gotten wrong.

    Thanks again!
     
  4. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    My adapter didn't come with a fitting. I bought my own elbow, 1/8" NPT I think, and used 1/8" copper tube. Compression fitting. Tube, not pipe. Both were an easy find at Lowes. I do pressurize mine. The siphon idea is great under a controlled environment but using compressed air alone to pull your fuel, especially waste oil makes for some trials. Putting 20 PSI behind your oil gets the deal done and the compression fittings work just fine.
    Dave Allen's design is a solid one.

    Pete
     
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  5. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Your local ACE doesn't have 1/8" copper pipe? Mine does. It comes as a roll in a box. Look again. The homelessshithole and Blowes are useless for plumbing and hardware these days. Great if ya want crappy shiny appliances and paint. And NEVER ASK anyone ANYTHING wearing a blue or orange apron.
     
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  6. Thanks @Jason!

    To date, 1/4 inch is the smallest that I've found. Comes rolled up in a box as well.

    I typically shop at home despot. Where I live, it usually has a pretty good variety of pipes/fittings. I'd have never built my first furnace if I had to rely only on Lowes.

    Haven't been to Ace in years. I'll have to check it out today.
     
  7. rocco

    rocco Silver

    I find Home Depot an exercise in frustration, aisle after aisle of stuff but some how they never seem to have the particular items I'm looking for, I invariably end up going to a small family owned local hardware store, more often than not, they have what I need.
     
  8. Gippeto

    Gippeto Silver

    Know anyone with a lathe? Simple job to do away with hard to find fittings altogether...hard to find where I live anyways. ;) Outer tube is 3/8" pipe and carries the air, inner pipe carries the oil.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Just one more piece of input here.

    I pressurize my diesel fuel at 10 PSI using a 12v automotive furl pump to supply my Delevan siphon. I use 10 pounds atomizing air. While not ideal, a pancake compressor (my backup) can supply enough air. Normally I run a sweet big old 2 stage, but it can and once did fail (switch malfunction) mid-melt.

    Most people do not put a fuel flow gauge on their fuel supply. But, I really like having a flow meter as it helps me set flow consistently and optimally from one melt to the next. I did not like the guessing game of running without a gauge. I find that for my furnace melting iron that a flow rate of .18L per minute is a good setting. Here is a link to the method I use for flow metering fuel:
    http://forums.thehomefoundry.org/in...with-a-pelton-sensor-and-digital-readout.811/

    Something to consider.

    Denis
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
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  10. @Gippeto. Very cool indeed! That is a super efficient design. Don't know anyone a with a lathe that I'd trust with my covid apocalypse pet project. However, I'm sure that I can pick one up at harbour freight on the cheap. I'll take a closer look at your design. I like the super clean design.
     
  11. @Melterskelter, appreciate the link. Makes sense to track fuel flow rate. Once, I'm up and running, I'll revisit your design. Too much still ahead of me. Can't visualize that far ahead yet.

    I've found it necessary to take a step back and revise my plans for furnace design after reading up on the topic. Going to need to go somewhat bigger and with more focus on heat retention/insulation. Been chatting with my local refractory provider considering various options. Between this and working the kinks out of my burner build, all available project allocated brain cells are currently occupied.
     
  12. @Gippeto, Trying to visualize the details of your set up. The siphon nozzle that I have has a screw pin that fits into the nozzle body on one side and into the adapter on the other. An O-ring on the adapter side seals oil channel preventing oil from leaking into compressed air channel.

    If yours is the same, how do you interface with the screw pin to seal off oil channel?
     
  13. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    I don't want to be a spoil sport, but having had a 9X19 Grizzly lathe which is very similar to Harbor Freight, I'd think long and hard before buying a harbor freight lathe. As supplied they can barely function. I spent a year and a half remaking my Grizz. By the time I was done, it could do some very light operations slowly and that was a big improvement. I would suggest you cruise PracticalMachinist archives on the subject and look at hobby machine forums to get a better idea of what my serve your interests. I would summarize to say that if you want to make a hobby of remaking your lathe so it will work, fine, buy a small Harbor Freight or Grizz. If you want to make parts somewhat efficiently consider a better lathe for the same money. There are lots of used decent lathes out there. Find a friend who knows lathes and ask him/her for help finding a usable lathe. To compare to the melting world the Harbor Freight Lathes are like the guy who melts ten thousand cans in to (useless) muffing tin ingots vs using decent melting stock to make something useful.

    Denis
     
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  14. dtsh

    dtsh Silver

    In regard to lathes, for the odd project I would head over to hobby-machinist.com and post in their project section what you need and a location, chances are good there's someone not too far off who might be willing to help. I spend time there now and again and find it a helpful place, much like here.

    I have an ancient lathe from the distant past, but it works well enough for me. My milling machine though was from HF and I'm pretty happy with it; not perfect, but effective and that's all I need.
     
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  15. Gippeto

    Gippeto Silver

    Not following with respect to "screw pin"...have a picture?

    The 3/8" pipe is threaded to match the forward portion of the nozzle, the oil inlet part of the nozzle with the oring slides into and seals on the smaller pipe (1/4" id).

    Al
     
  16. rocco

    rocco Silver

    Gippeto, that's a pretty slick looking set-up! Do you happen to recall the thread size and the I.D. you turned your 1/4" pipe to?
     
  17. Gippeto

    Gippeto Silver

    Thread was 9/16-24...bit of an oddball, but single pointing makes locating the correct tap a non issue. I have some left over bits of those pipes and will measure them when I go back out.

    Al
     
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  18. @Gippeto
    Found the parts that needed for flare fitting connects. Will post info here shortly. However, I will still want to revisit your build as a possible upgrade for burner version 2. Also others might want to consider your design as well.
     
  19. Here is my fuel line fittings solution. Parts:

    1. 90 degree elbow from hardware store that connects to adapter. Optional nipple from hardware store.

    2. Bosch Gauges Copper Tubing Installation Kit to connect and seal fuel line on both the adapter side and the fuel source side (valve and quick connect in my case).

    The below pics will show assembly details.

    First pic is fuel source side before assembly. Seal is made using a ferrule (little cone looking thing).

    Second pic is nozzle side assembled. One important note here, I had to replace the elbow that came with adapter with one from hardware store. The nipple at end is from hardware store. Depending on specific build, it might not be necessary for some.

    artflow_202005221755.jpg

    Wooot!
     
  20. Gippeto

    Gippeto Silver

    Always nice when you find what you need. :)

    For what it's worth;

    Inner pipe measures .395" od x .281" id (Not sure why I thought it was 1/4"...blame it on CRS. ;) ) Barely removing the weld seam leaves just enough id to seal the oring.

    Outer pipe .678" od x .515" id.

    Thread is 9/16-24.

    Al
     
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