Background: In another thread (http://forums.thehomefoundry.org/index.php?threads/mixing-up-k-bond-sand-similar-to-petrobond.1759/) on mixing K-Bond members have expressed doubt as to whether they have bentonite vs bentone as their sources were not felt to be entirely reliable. So I set out to compare Bentone to Western and Southern Bentonite so that they might be able to determine with some degree of certainty which they have. So, I compared the miscibility of Bentone vs Bentonites in oil and in water and then compared benone and bentonite mixed first with oil and then adding water to those mixtures. And I made observations on odor that may also be a good clue. Odor: My bentone obtained from Mach on this forum and which he obtained from a reliable source has a distinct fruity or ketone-like mild odor. It is very evident when I simply open its container and even more obvious when I put my nose into the container. On the other hand, both bentonites are practically odorless. They might have a very faint loam-like smell. All three powders mix easily with 2-cycle motor oil into a smooth paste. Both bentonites individually mix immediately into a smooth mud with just a little stirring when combined with water equal in volume to their dry volumes. But bentone was not easy to mix into water and when it did mix it was not easy to get it to mix into a smooth paste. I could more or less get it to form a paste, but it was not easy. The biggest difference became evident when I tried to spoon-mix water with a paste of bentonite and oil vs mixing water with a paste of bentone and oil. The bentonite paste partially combined but blobs of water just insisted on forming in the mixture. It might have been possible to form a suspension if I had used a vigorous motorized mechanical mixer, but with simple spoon mixing it was impossible. However, the bentone/oil paste mixed easily to a uniform consistency with water. No water blobs remained after maybe 30 seconds or less of hand mixing. I did make some short videos of the mixing process and will post them later. If, after checking the above factors, someone is still in doubt as to whether the powder they have is bentone or not, I would put a 1/4 cup or so in a sealed vacuum pouch and mail it to them at the cost of postage. Denis Added: It would be great if someone else could make their own comparisons or provide additional information on distinguishing bentone from bentonite.
Incidentally, I did send Tom Cobett a note regarding this thread and its obvious limitations. I hope he will comment and add his thoughts which are based on many years of experience and use of bentones of many types. Denis
Another way of figuring out if you have bentone or bentonite is to consider what you paid for it. Bentone usually costs $3 to $5 per lb. Bentonite will cost $0.20 to $0.40 per lb. If you mix each material with water, only one of them will become like jello. (the bentonite) Mix 10 grams of the bentone or bentonite in 100 ml. of water. The bentone will look like muddy water after 24 hours. It does not swell in water. Bentonite will look like gray pudding or grease.
Here are the videos I made. In one case I did say mistakenly say bentonite when I meant bentone. I think that will be pretty evident. I also often said "solution" when I should have said "mixture" as I think we are talking about mixtures of bentonite and bentone and not solutions. Water Plus Southern Bentonite Water Plus Western Bentonite I said bentonite when I meant to say bentone. Water Plus Bentone Comparison of oil+bentone and oil+bentonite with each then mixed with water. Repeated water plus Bentone: I did leave the Oil+Powder followed by Water test on the bnch and will see what it looks like tomorrow. I will try Tom's suggested test of mixing water + bentone and letting it stand for 24hrs and doing the same with each bentonite. I'll make short vids of the results and likely post on Monday. Thank you, Tom.
if you would like I can send you a sample of my bentone so you can repeat your experiment for a double confirmation, Mine is 12 years plus old... I got it from W-2 I think back on AA when he was still selling stuff V/r HT1 P.S just Dm me an address if your interested
Sure, a coupe or 3 tablespoons would be enough to do plenty of comparisons. It might be interesting to see how similar it might be in color, odor, miscibility with water, oil, etc. I would think its age should not matter much as most non-volatile dry chemicals have very long shelf lives. (Moth balls are an example of a volatile dry chemical) HT1 (or anyone else), does your bentone have a distinctive odor? PM sent. That could be one of the easiest clues for anyone interested in discriminationg bentone from bentonite. Denis
I brought home samples of dry Bentone, Western Bentonite, and Southern Bentonite to use in an experiment as suggested by Tom Cobett above. I used a triple-balance-beam scale calibrated in .1gm increments to measure out 10gm samples of each of the powders and 60gm portions of water. I added samples of powder to labeled plastic containers and to each container added 60gm of water. Here is a photo of how the SB looked compared to Bentone immediately after adding water: Here is a photo of the three after some moderate stirring of each And here is a backlit image of the three after moderate and approximately equal stirring of each. You can see the SB mixed into the water uniformly and almost immediately. The WB mixed in fairly well but was somewhat clumpy. And the Bentone mixed in very poorly. I intend to leave them on the counter as Tom suggested for 24 hours and again compare them to see if there is a significant volume change of each of the containers. Denis
I did let the bentone and two bentonites stand for 24 hours at room temp. The Western B did assume a more or less homogenous pudding -like consistency. The Southern precipitated out to form a layer of greasy mud about 1/2" deep. The bentone partially settled and some remained on top of the water. It never became uniform as it remained a clumpy mass. I made a video of the results. Youtube decided to display it vertically so the what was on the left is now on the lower edge of the frame. The video is also a "short" so you have to click on the link to see it. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3NngIAMjomU Here is abacklit photo taken moments ago. So, for anyone trying to discriminate W vs S bentones and bentone from bentonite, hopefully the above clues will provide some help. Whether there could be some variation between the behavior of my benonites and bentone and other folks' materials is uncertain. If anyone takes the time to post their observations that would help us learn if these results are generally true. Denis
Denis, Thanks for going through the work to post all this! Will be following up when I receive some possible off-the-shelf Bentone.
