My IFB/fibre-blanket furnace build.

Discussion in 'Furnaces and their construction' started by OMM, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. OMM

    OMM Silver

    As promised
     
    Al2O3, Jason, Tobho Mott and 2 others like this.
  2. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Looks like it's going to be a great performer.
    Now chuck some iron in that sucker and let's see what happens... :D
     
  3. OMM

    OMM Silver

    Thanks David. First I need to get a cup (or the last thing I need to do is get the cup:)).

    One thing I did notice, when the mixture was a little too rich, I lost the roar sound coming from the furnace. I didn’t really push its first light too hard. I had it burning for about 30 minutes. I burnt 3L(0.8 gallon) of diesel, and 1.5L(0.4 gallon) of WVO. I guess I’m about 9 L (2.4 gal) per hour.

    I shut it down at 3:30 PM. . 7 hrs. later, I just checked the temperature, the inside brick is still 270°C ( 518°F). (Edit; 20 hours later has a temperature of 65°C)
    Wow, I need to figure how and where I’m going to store this. And I have no clue what my running temperature was.

    I got this pretty cool picture about 10 minutes after it was shut down.
    2CEF0469-15F2-4E37-8098-35EA6B08DCD0.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
    joe yard likes this.
  4. One thing about running a furnace is that the furnace combustion behaviour will be completely different with and without a crucible.
     
    OMM likes this.
  5. OMM

    OMM Silver

    Mark, I’m with you on this... but, our fearless leader really wanted to just see a burn(nothing more or less, now Iron). First flame, now he wants to a iron melt! Gee, i guess, I got my work cut out for me!

    I can see how dozen things or more can change depending on crucible size . I am thinking probably my maximum crucible size will be in A20 (with a go to A16) . I think I might be able to tweek to anything smaller.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  6. A clay flowerpot might make a good single use crucible substitute so long as it's fairly dry and not full of trapped moisture, maybe bake in an oven beforehand to avoid steam induced damage. You could even put some sand/clay in it and a few sample aluminium, brass and iron test samples and see which melts. For iron you'll need to get well into yellow heat from what I have experienced, as orange glowing refractory/crucible temps will just get iron soft, a crucible in there may aid the combustion and flame path.

    I plan to try some monel (1300-1350 deg C) and 316 stainless (1500-1540 deg C) at some point to see if they melt.
     
  7. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Looks like a good trial run and tune was responding well to the burner controls. The look into the furnace seemed to be well into the Yellow spectrum.

    You may want to consider increasing the opening diameter in the stainless steel lid cover. It looked like it was getting pretty toasty and the heat expansion had lifted/warped the lid skin a bit. That may cause some unwanted stresses in you lid refractory and hardware. As you optimize the tune and the heat goes up, it may suffer some localized attrition as will the wool in the vent. If you have some leftover IFB scrap, a stubby little chimney with about an 1" wall thickness or so may be a good idea to further insulate/isolate the upper region of the vent hole.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  8. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    What better test is there??? :D:D
     
  9. OMM

    OMM Silver

    Aluminum, copper, brass, bronze then cast Iron???
     
  10. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    You wanna learn to swim?? Jump in the deep end...;)
     
  11. I was able to melt aluminium and brass with incomplete combustion, in that the fuel was still combusting as it left the furnace. It would only soften iron not actually melt it so iron is a good test of a furnace.
     
  12. OMM

    OMM Silver

    Lol. I am a little bit special the way I learn. I always start in the shallow end.

    Yeah, it’s taking me five weeks to build this furnace(Some guys here build in a weekend). It took me almost 3 hours of testing the oil flow rate to have a maximum of 200 mL per minute but, 175 mL/m was my goal . My fuel lines only have a 3/16 ID and just shy of 15 feet. And I have not cut (or diluted) the oil. My blower did not have enough pressure to deliver the oil uncut. I had to resort to pressurizing the fuel tanks with compressed air. I got my 175 mL/m at 40 PSI., So I just jumped it up to 60 PSI and this gave me 250 mL/m. That little pipe bomb air compressor I’ve had up to 300 psi. Currently it shut off at 175 PSI and on again at 155 psi. It’s just a Freon compressor out of an old fridge. It ran for about 15 seconds with two minutes downtime. My video on the build.


    I like to have action plans and action plans for action plans.

    My original plan on the lighting fell through. My second plan of action fired it up safely and beautiful. No paper, no wood and about 2 feet away 30 seconds after the first trail light.

    I am currently maxed out on my combustion/Atomizing fuel airflow. I had the ball valve full open. To get more I will need to swap out the 1/2” airline for 5/8” or 3/4”. So, I think I’ll take baby steps towards my cast-iron melt.

    I don’t jump in the deep end anymore. Now I dive sometimes involving a couple twists and flips 25 feet high.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  13. OMM

    OMM Silver

    A12 has been ordered. So maybe I will give cast iron a try in two weeks. It sure doesn’t give me very much time to play in shallow end.
     
    Mark's castings likes this.
  14. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    If you don't already have it, some good personal protection equipment too!

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  15. OMM

    OMM Silver

    Maybe I don’t have all the right gear, do you have some suggestions? I have all the welding gear. Jackets, helmets, leather boots and leather boot covers, full to ground apron. I also have three different welding helmets with variable tint and three different tint safety glasses for UV. I also have high thermal foundry gloves, that go to the elbow.

    While, I waded in the shallow end,... I will continue with my stainless steel crucible.

    New SS crucible and glove.

    This time I’m going to weld instead of forge a pourspout. Variety is the spice of life.

    54A392DE-7B1B-40AE-B5DF-E24BCB0D054C.jpeg

    5F557F58-0448-4685-AC60-DA6576BA5A77.jpeg

    9ACF7804-73B9-4F1E-82D2-C5612496CC7D.jpeg


    No, I don’t have a tinfoil suit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  16. Looks like you have it all sorted out, I'm using leather boots, leather welding spats, cotton trousers, cotton long sleeved shirt, leather apron extended to the top of my boots and leather welding gloves. I'd like to get some leather welding trousers too. I mentioned in another thread that I had a plastic grinding face shield get hit by a small 10mm bit of molten bronze spat out while pouring into a steel mould that wasn't preheated. It hit the mask in line with my eyeball and immediately disappeared with a loud pop: it seems the dirt/moisture on the plastic vapourized and blew the bronze back off leaving a small spot completely undamaged and free of all the dust on the mask surface. I don't recommend using a plastic grinding mask but it did work in my case and was undamaged, I don't think it'll shrug off a bigger splash.
     
  17. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    OIF's SS crucible lasted him quite awhile. There's a thread on here somewhere about it.
    It sounds like you've got the PPE to start. You'll get the feel for what you're lacking if you do a couple of dry-runs. I wear boots with no laces so they'll kick off easily. Molten metal will burn through just about anything and will stick to some fire retardant materials so all of my stuff is pretty easy to take off. I don't put any of the heavy PPE on until I've got metal starting to melt, including my loose boots. Just safety glasses, cap, and leather work gloves. The closer I get to pouring time the more stuff I put on. I pour over sandstone patio block with loose clean sand thinly scattered about. I've over-poured my mold more than once and had runouts as well and the sand does several things, in my mind anyway: it lets any moisture in the sandstone vaporize without being trapped by the metal preventing a "pop", it dampens the impact of a dollop of metal so it doesn't splash so much, and using clean sand allows me to recover the metal without having stones or gravel in it.
    I haven't had any mishaps yet, thankfully.

    Pete
     
  18. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Here ya-go on that one.

    http://forums.thehomefoundry.org/index.php?threads/life-cycle-of-a-stainless-steel-crucible.654/

    On the subject of PPE, I think most welding gear is reasonably well suited for foundry use and your gloves look good. I don't care for welding helmets in foundry use because they are just too sight restrictive but that's just my preference. Besides what already has been mentioned, a good face shield is a good investment for iron service, and better yet if it has mesh and/or reflective coating. In addition to things you can take off quickly, make sure they are worn in a manner that cascades the metal off you like shingles instead of cuffs that funnel them into your garment. I'd say a good deal of the burns from folks wearing good PPE I've seen posted fall into the this category.

    Maybe one day I'll have a need for a cast part that motivates me to iron but for now I have a backlog of aluminum casting projects to last me a long while. Aluminum is the kiddy pool compared to iron when it comes to radiant heat. Radiant heat transfer is a function of emissivity, distance, and temperature to the fourth power as in T1^4 - T2^4. Standing next to a white hot surface versus a red hot surface is a whole different ball game since iron temps a double aluminum temps. Once something gets hot and starts to smoke, it usually gets a lot hotter before you shed it. The quality/degree of PPE is a personal decision but if you are going to spend time around iron, I wouldn't discount the foil garments. You can often buy used firefighters proximity gear economically at auction sites like eBay. I bought new elbow length proximity gloves for $35.

    If you search eBay for Proximity Gloves, Firefighter's Gloves, Aluminized gloves, you'll get stuff from $19 and up and surprising even used proximity pants, coats and occasionally a helmet and visor can be had economically. Searching fire fighters and proximity will produce a number of interesting hits. Firefighter Helmet and Visor is also a good search.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
    dennis likes this.
  19. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Pete mentioned above that he wears his boots loose, and I remember reading about others doing the same in old AA threads, which led me to adopt the same practice for several years. The idea being, if you should spill molten metal down your boot, you can just kick it off real quick and mitigate the damage. I've stopped doing that. But I'm curious if it's ever paid off for anyone. And equally curious whether it's ever caused anyone to stumble.

    I remember when I decided I didn't like that contingency plan anymore. I had just spilled some bronze and gotten a 3rd degree burn on my foot. :eek:

    Right then, I was completely surrounded by what seemed like a thousand red hot bronze BB's covering the ground all around me, and still holding a hot crucible of mostly unspilled molten bronze. Drop everything and get barefoot right there and then? Hell no, not this guy! But I would have LOVED to be able to dunk my foot, shoe and all, into a bucket of cold water real quick... Placed nearby (but not in the way), and wide enough to step into. That's my contingency plan these days.

    I really like my aluminized gloves for being close to hot stuff like when skimming dross or for the hand holding the crucible end of a pouring shank, but mine are not any good for actually touching/grabbing hot things. My welding gauntlets are better for that, and the aluminized gloves also won't take a lot of wear before the reflective coating starts flaking away. Aluminized hand shields slipped over the welding gauntlets seems like a good middle ground that doesn't involve multiple changes of gloves during a casting session: https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/hobart-aluminized-back-hand-pad/A-p8666497e

    Jeff
     
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  20. Looks like you can get a gap between your lid and furnace shell on the hinge side. When closing it, it looked like the hinge side hit first and it wasn't clear whether it would set down flat. Everything moves when it gets hot. Is there slop to let it fit down tight with differential expansion? Another concern is the leg. It must be free to rotate after corrosion sets in to avoid two hands required to get the lid supported. Does the foot of the leg get You might consider a paddle to lay over the open lid if the radiant energy is great enough that you have trouble grabbing the crucible in all the heat.

    Looked like your first burn was rich, and you mentioned you ran out of air. Good air control is as important as good fuel control to me.

    Have you tried opening your lid hot? I agree with the others that it looks like it will be hot to handle, and the hot face up will give you lots more radiant heat to deal with.

    My cheap furnace is brick/wool/55 gallon drum. Drum is not discolored after 420 heats. I think your wool will block gas paths without mortar and allow the brick to expand. It will be interesting to see how your lid holds up. I need a big hole in my lid because I load and skim through the lid.

    You will probably get a lot better burn than I do with a drip burner and motor oil, but I have to switch back to propane to burn off the excess oil or I get black smoke when shutting down. Do you plan to pull your burners at shutdown?

    My setup is low tech. I just dump anything flammable into my fuel tank and then burn away. Stale gasoline does not burn as hot as WVO which does not burn as hot as kerosene which is not as hot as WMO, in my setup. I'm pretty much sticking to motor oil as it is free and easy. It will be interesting to see how much you use your fuel switching manifold.

    The aluminized gloves are well worth the money, but they are only for radiant energy. You should have tools where you never need to handle hot surfaces but still need protection from radiant energy.

    I used 316 SS crucibles for many heats. They last very well but are subject to melting if you try to get too much superheat on your melt. The wall of my last one failed in midair and dumped the load. I was lucky and need to post about that but have not had the time with my wife passing. I will get to it. After that failure I am less enthusiastic about steel crucibles. I was melting some scrap aluminum from the glass flask videos and thought I could heat enough to make the glass float. All the glass contaminated scrap got discarded after the accident and I am using only clay graphite crucibles.

    Your build has been interesting and I am very much enjoying watching so keep it up. Your fabrication skills are great.

    Do melt aluminum first until you get your sea legs.
     

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