Newbie. Harbor freight and my construction

Discussion in 'Furnaces and their construction' started by Ben Ricard, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Peedee

    Peedee Silver

    My father was refinery pipe welder. Crawl inside to make the first root and then building passes outside to finish the job. One joint would be a box of rods or more and if it didn't pass x-ray you're screwed.

    He taught me a bit of welding but didn't want me to go into the job, it was a harsh environment. I didn't really learn until I got a job on a farm at 15 and got the junk stick box and a pack of wet rods.
     
    Jason likes this.
  2. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    So far no one has mentioned a tig welder. Most likely that is because a decent machine is going to cost several times what a small flux core welder might cost. But, having used both style welders, for me a tig is sooo much more controllable and so much more precise (and a lot slower) that I hugely prefer the tig approach for the fussy non-production work I find myself doing related to my foundry. Flux will get it done pretty much. But, when I need, for example, to weld a 1/4-20 nut onto a piece of 1/4” steel, gimme the tig unit. Perhaps I just need to learn to use wire feed better.

    Denis
     
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  3. Jason

    Jason Gold

    I Tig everything these days. Havent used my little mig in years. Push comes to shove, I could build a little tig rig from a harbor freight stick machine for less than 300bucks. Someone here needs to buy that cheap aphatig. From what I hear, it's a great machine for the money.
     
  4. Peedee

    Peedee Silver

    Alphatig 200? Looks like a lot of machine for $800. That's still a lot of wedge if the only reason you need a welder is to build foundry stuff.
     
  5. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Yeah that machine. It's 1/4 of what I spent! And my machine doesn't have any more features on it either! :oops:
    Sure it's overkill to just build a foundry stuff one time, but opens oh so many doors for the guy that seriously want's to putz with metal stuff.
    The sting of buying something leaves me when it's 11pm and I reach for a tool and it's THERE! Make me smile every time! One thing I
    hate is sending anything out. It almost always comes back half-assed and I'm still out good money.

    Here's a great example. Last year I was down in San Antonio. We had to replace an oil cooler on the airplane. $4,000 for a new one so I hit the used market. I find a practically new condition used one for $350bucks! Pay the overnight shipping ($120) and it shows up, mounting holes don't line up, they get drilled to fit. I call the local welder we use that has a machine shop. He welds up 8 holes, charges me 300bucks and it takes 3days to get it back! And this was the "friend" price. His work looked like I did it! I would have done the job myself, except it would have involved 6hrs driving to take it home. That night, I would have gladly spent the grand to put an alphatig in my mechanics shop. Next time we have a piddly welding job, I'm doing it. Time is money, BIG MONEY in my world. That down time cost me 3 nights in a hotel ($140 a night) , 3 days rental car ($79 a day) , 3 days expenses ($35 a day) , 3 nights extra in the hanger ($400bucks a night)
    3 days the airplane could have been out on a trip (priceless in my opinion)

    Sad work here.
    Screenshot_20200328-164247_Gallery.jpg

    This one even had a crack in the middle of it.
    Screenshot_20200328-163906_Gallery.jpg
     
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  6. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    I spent more "wedge" than that on my machine but I surely don't regret it. I use it many times a week on foundry stuff and a lot of other jobs for my hobby metal-working shop not to mention a bunch of items for my house and my kids as well. Once the welding door opened, I found my options for solving problems increased hugely. Things that would have been a cumbersome and time-consuming to fit together using fasteners suddenly could be zapped together in short order. Things that would have been impractical or impossible with fasteners are now simple, quick, and as strong as the metal from which they are made. Repairs can be made (like Jason's example but executed better) that would otherwise be impossible. I consider my tig welder as a contender for the most important tool in my shop. I love it.

    Denis
     
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  7. Jason

    Jason Gold

    DOUBLE THUMBS UP Denis. They can have my Tig machine when they can pry it from my cold dead hands.

    20160306_152949-1.jpg
     
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  8. Peedee

    Peedee Silver

    I can't disagree with you Jason, I have this weird mental conditon where I need a tool to pay for itself quickly. (Or I'm as tight as a knats chuff in other words)

    We have a discount outlet over here knocking out little inverter flux core mig sets here for less than £80 (about$100) If it died in 6 months so what.
     
    Jason likes this.
  9. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Ass, cash or grass... no one and no thing rides for free! Even my worthless cat better earn his keep. I expect the occasional dead bird or mouse.
    My little dog gets a pass. One look at this face and we give him whatever he wants! Rough coat Brussels Griffon. "Oliver"

    Screenshot_20200329-044248_One UI Home.jpg
     
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  10. Peedee

    Peedee Silver

    I think he passes the 'don't **** with me' look!
     
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  11. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    We're drifting Ben. Don't worry, some input from you will bring it right back.
    I've at least learned what "wedge" and "chuff" mean, and also met Jason's dog, so there's that.
    I already knew that those who own TIGs love their TIGs but I've also heard that starting off by learning gas welding is a good way to go. I started with the mig I described before and just got into the habit of zapping (and steadily improved my performance with practice and reading) but then I bought an oxy/acet rig. It's a different animal and comes with some other considerations like tank size and commitment and is more difficult to get good at, especially without hands-on instruction, but once you get your arms around heat and bead control your skills will carry over to other forms of welding you might choose to pursue. Plus you then have another cutting tool and Lord knows you can never have too many of them. A new portable size rig will still cost several hundred dollars though. I'm still not very good with gas welding but am steadily improving.

    Pete
     
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  12. Jason

    Jason Gold

    I tried my hand at gas welding. Forget that BS. I only use straight acetylene for brazing and that's it. I have heard that too you should gas weld first. Kinda like saying you should learn to drive a horse and buggy before driving a car. Now a guy that stick welds probably picks up tig faster than a mig jockey. Remember, learning chinese isnt hard for chinese babies. It's just practice, if I could pick up tig by watching youtube, anyone can.
     
  13. Peedee

    Peedee Silver

    Never did get on with oxy/acete welding but looking back I probably never got the flame right. Brazing I had no problem with.

    Pete is right, we've probably confused the thread enough, Ben?
     
  14. garyhlucas

    garyhlucas Silver

    I know how to Tig weld and my mechanic was under truck gas welding a muffler pipe. I watched for a minute and said let me try that. I welded all the way around and he looked at it and said I didn't know you could gas weld! I said this is the first time but it is so similar to Tig that is was easy to pick up.

    The only reason I didn't buy a Tig welder is that you have to have Argon and having that sit around is expensive.

    I got the 240 volt power hooked up for the HF Titanium 170 so we'll see how I do with flux core. Not today, it's been raining constantly and this is an outdoor task like casting.
     
  15. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Hey gary, my 120cf bottle costs me around 40bucks to fill. That's about 6hrs of tig welding! I run around 15-20cf. Better machines help you save at the gas pump by better control of pre/post flow gas times. Depends what you're welding, but I set .5 seconds pre and 3-5 seconds post flow.
     
  16. Peedee

    Peedee Silver

    I've been told flux core can spatter .. a lot. That may be a function of spray transfer rather than dip or the quality of the wire? We have rather complicated this thread, all be it interesting discussion.
     
  17. Jason

    Jason Gold

    It does. Flux core makes a big ol mess. I wouldnt worry too much. Ben is getting some good guidance from you and others. I've made the mistakes and it cost me plenty!
     
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  18. dtsh

    dtsh Silver

    I don't own a HF welder, but I have used one. It's a POS without a doubt, but it can lay down a bead and it is functional. Flux core does indeed spatter, but that isn't going to prevent a usable weld, I use it in my welder often enough.
    If you've got an odd job here and there and are considering learning how to weld, the HF isn't a terrible choice. If you like welding and do it often the HF will certainly get tiresome fast, but as a cheap way to learn it's hard to beat. Best though is to talk with friends and see if anyone has a welder and would be willing to give you a quick intro and some scrap to practice on.

    Last time the HF was used for my benefit we put a broken trailing arm back together to get the car home on one piece. Weld was pretty sad looking, but functional. Had I given him $100 and thrown it in the trash I'd have still been money ahead over a tow.

    I use mine once every few months, but the time it saves and the repair options it opens up makes it very useful for the kinds of things I find myself doing. A few repairs you do yourself and it's paid for itself.
     
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  19. Ben Ricard

    Ben Ricard Copper

    You. All are a trip !
    Thanx and everything was filled with insight and info.
    I am skilled in electrical stuff and wired my house when I built it..
    So.. I am gonna find a few buds. That have welders and do a little hands on..
    Again..
    I thank you all !!
     
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  20. garyhlucas

    garyhlucas Silver

    So I'll add a little bit here about Mig welding. I used to build a product where we mig welded frames from 1/16" wall square steel tubing and 1/8" HR flats. We built about 100 frames at a time. We also made rail brackets from HR 1/8" angle and 1/8" HR flat material. Everything we made was sent out to be hot dip galvanized. A customer called and was complaining about our hanger welds failing. Bad news because our machines hung from these brackets and someone could get injured. We had a bin with about 1000 of those hangers in it so I grabbed a sample and examined the welds, and they looked beautiful. Then I put the part in a vise and applied a pipe wrench and to my horror the weld broke clean off! Virtually every part I tested broke, only some were a little tougher. Poor base metal penetration. We finally solved the problem by switching from welding with 0.035" welding wire to 0.045" wire for EVERYTHING! My guys at first had trouble burning through on the 1/16" material but once they got the hang of it we realized we had cut our weld time in half too. We never got a broken weld after galvanizing once we switched. So every weld drawing we had was marked "ALL WELDING TO BEN DONE WITH 0.045" WIRE. ANY PARTS WELDED WITH SMALLER WIRE WILL BE REJECTED!" Some parts were being sent out to outside vendors and they would bitch about needing to switch to 0.045" wire in their machines to do our work. They always told us how they never had weld failures with 0.035" wire and we simply told them if you use it you will be eating those parts. That batch of 1000 parts that were breaking? Right to scrap, along with thousands more of other brackets.
     
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