Newbie. Harbor freight and my construction

Discussion in 'Furnaces and their construction' started by Ben Ricard, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Peedee

    Peedee Silver

    The wire size thing is interesting, do you think the lack of penetration was due to lower current, faster pass?
     
  2. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Someone should have seriously done a cut and etch before building that many parts. I would have just because of the volume of parts. Welding something critical should dictate this too.
    Live in and learn I suppose. Jodi from welding tips and tricks cautions new welders about this.
     
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  3. I had a flat tyre on a borrowed trailer and bought a wheeled jack from an auto parts store: straight out of the box I could see this MIG weld bead had zero penetration and went right round the tube but hadn't stuck to the flat and popped off cleanly, then had been painted over. You could see daylight through the gap!.
     
  4. Billy Elmore

    Billy Elmore Silver

    I love a mig for aluminum and steel. I can go from one inch thick to a 1/16 and thinner with minimal changes. I had lots of practice welding our old 20SK matchplate pattern that would break after a few hundred molds. We kept three on hand as they were constantly rotated because they would break so often. Nothing like welding a 15" crack along the parting line of a giant skillet matchplate pattern. Cut it all out by hand...no air tools were allowed back then...file and chisel and sand paper. Sucked but boy did I learn techniques.LOL I also started to use air tools (grinder sander and hand held cutters) after a few hundred times and suggested they do it a while if they didn't like my using them. To my surprise they actually did. After about 20 minutes they decided I could use air tools.
     
  5. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Did you run a spool gun on that aluminum??
     
  6. Billy Elmore

    Billy Elmore Silver

    Yes...had both...one is on gun and one was in the case and runs through the hose. My preference is the gun. Way too much wasted time associated with long tube if you get a kink or something. We eventually converted the spool in case to the gun and it is much easier to deal with. If you use it for extended periods of time the gun will get heavy with a big spool on it but when you are welding aluminum patterns you must do it in small increments to keep heat and warpage / draw to a minimum so it is really not a big factor. We have used stick welders on aluminum as well. They will suffice but are much more work and not nearly as good as mig.
     
  7. As someone who learned to weld during my last furnace build and at the risk of being throughly mocked, I’m going to disagree with the conventional wisdom about 110v stick welders WITH A FEW CAVEATS. It’s ok for a newbie who will do very little amount of welding.

    First, do so knowing that you’ll be limited to the smallest gauge electrodes, 1/16 and 5/64.

    You will want replace the ground and positive leads with after market non-crap products. Given this, you’ll need to get a really good price to make it worthwhile.

    You will only be able to weld for a few consecutive minutes at a time due to less than impressive duty cycle of HF welders.

    Look on Craigslist or similar for a gently used one. Might be hard to justify if buying at full price at HF.
     
    Billy Elmore likes this.
  8. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Gold Banner Member

    I'm an amateur welder at best, but I can't disagree with that. I did my first welding for a furnace build too, actually that was probably more than half of all the welding I have ever done, using a friend's brother-in-law's pretty decent MIG welder running fluxcore wire (ie. gas not needed). I eventually bought a much less powerful 110V fluxcore only machine from Princess Auto (Canadian HF equivalent) and for the stuff I have used it for - building various foundry tools and equipment, nothing very thick - I can manage to stick stuff together so it won't break. It's not pretty but it works.

    I dont know enough about welding to recommend one type of machine over another and I can only weld pretty thin steel with mine, but IMO since a better machine just wasn't in my budget, having it has been a real advantage over not having any welder at all. You can do most things with nuts and bolts or rivets if you are determined and patient, but that takes time and effort, and over time the cost of nuts and bolts and drill bits will add up...

    I'm sure if I ever get a decent machine and learn how to use it well, I will change my mind about this and agree with many of the more experienced welders... But for right now, to me my cheap little welder was a couple hundred bucks well spent. Less regretfully crappy than my cheap benchtop versions of a woodcutting bandsaw and drill press.

    Jeff
     
  9. Jason

    Jason Gold

    I always recommend to any beginner to find a 180amp+ mig machine and a bottle of gas. You can get a lot done with that machine. Stick welding sucks for beginners when you can get a decent mig machine for less than 300bucks. Only caveat, when something looks like it's stuck together, do a damn cut and acid etch test. Cut across your weld, sand it well, and hit it with some naval jelly. Look at your weld nugget. This will show if you are getting good penetration. Any monkey can piss snot on a seam and call it welded. If you don't have good base metal penetration, you haven't done squat! And above all, As a new welder, do not weld ANYTHING that goes down the friggen road or spins on a lawnmower! Walk before you run! Nothing wrong with an entry level mig from the hazard fart, just know YOUR limitations while getting started!
     
  10. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    Clean is the watchword.

    Pete
     
  11. Billy Elmore

    Billy Elmore Silver

    I used 110 with lots of good welds. Just let my dad talk me out of my 110 mig and gas bottle. Now I just got a 750 gsxr motor that I am about to put on a gokart and need it back.LOL
     
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  12. Jason

    Jason Gold

    I've got a 110vt mig craftsman mig welder from the 1990's. It's good for thin stuff, but anything bigger than 1/8" and it becomes totally worthless. ZERO penetration.
    Gsxr motor on a go cart.:D lol Your dad did you a favor ya clown.. :p

    I've made my fair share of good looking welds with my crappy little machine that I thought were good only to watch them fail. I still need a better mig, so for now, I just slow poke tig my way through life. I KNOW I can trust those welds, but don't ask me to weld a trailer hitch. That's for guys with the insurance so I can SUE their balls when it falls off.
     
  13. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    I have a Hobart handler 125 with gas that's rated for 3/16. It's a 110v machine and works just fine for me. I've gotten good enough with it to trust my welds on thin stuff but the heavier thickness (with consequences) gets nuts and bolts or would get hired out if needs be. I weld 1/4" with it by cutting grooves or bevels but I wouldnt walk under it. I paid about $350 for it new. The next step up in Hobart handler is a 140 I think and is rated for 1/4. That was a solid $500 and I just wouldnt reach that deep.

    Pete
     
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  14. Jason

    Jason Gold

    my crapsman is 105amps on 110vts, talk about worthless!:oops: I really want that 300amp dual pulse HTP mig, but they gotta rework the stainless programming before I get froggy. I expect the dollar will be completely useless by then and I'll have to trade my car for one.:rolleyes::(

    I like tools, but they gotta pay their way in some form. time or cash money!
     
  15. Don’t know what to make of this mixed metaphor, but the mental imagery that it evokes is terrifying:)
     
    Jason likes this.
  16. Jason

    Jason Gold

    I got suckered into doing a job once with an under powered machine. I probably should have moved to mars after I did that nightmare! I shudder to think what could happen when the wrong drunk dumbass decides to test my welding skills! :eek: And that's about all I'm going to say about that job!
     
  17. Billy Elmore

    Billy Elmore Silver

    This cheap ass steel from China that these go karts are made out of probably needs to be tig welded. I poked a hole through it with my welding wire when my ground came off. Paper thin!
     
  18. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    You might be better of with mechanical attachment methods or at least bolting on some real steel to weld to.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
    Billy Elmore likes this.
  19. Jason

    Jason Gold

    I bet the chinese probably use EMT and call it chrome-moly tubing.:rolleyes: Nothing they do surprises me anymore.
     
  20. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    Thats sorta what I'm getting at. The members on the go-cart might be ok structurally until you start "heat treating" them.
     
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