Pricing castings

Discussion in 'General foundry chat' started by HT1, Jun 29, 2018.

  1. HT1

    HT1 Gold Banner Member

    Guys I'm racking my brain trying to price these Mugs, I dropped the Stainless Liner as It was near to $60 each alone ... Let Me itemize
    the Shell that forms the Body If I have to purchase it is $45+$15 Sh
    coin is supplied by customr,
    the handle and the coin base are cast ... 5Lb brass at $2/ LB
    lets assume i can cast enough parts for four mugs at a time
    Propane 3.49/gal 5 gal/pour or $4.36/ mug in fuel cost
    thermocouple wear and tear... $61/ 100 Uses is $.61 / 4 $.15
    to tin the inside is (safe to drink from) is $10.30 for metal and flux each
    the handle is drill and tapped, screwed in place... Lets say $1.00 ea
    the handle and coin base are brazed on stay-silv 15 we are looking at $4.00 ea mug lets double that for gas
    Polishing I'm using a $65 exl lets hope I can do 6 with it so $10.83
    Lets say a pound of lost petrobond $1.48
    flap wheel for interior 15.33/6

    My math says I have $ 23.86 direct expense if the customer supplies the Shell...
    Now My time about 4 Hours for casting ... Ram Up,melt, pour break out mull and stow sand for next use. so if I get parts for four i've got an hour each into them. I might match that in the assembly and finish so at least 2 hours each... Where should My price point be to assure a fair profit ... I know I left out electric and the PITA factor cause they are hard to do ... So just throw out your oppinions

    Thanks in advance
    V/r HT1
    [​IMG]
     
    joe yard likes this.
  2. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    I wouldn't touch it for less than $250.00
     
  3. Check your arithmetic, I came up with $40 each direct cost unless I misunderstood your numbers.

    $2.50 the handle and the coin base are cast ... 5Lb brass at $2/ LB
    lets assume i can cast enough parts for four mugs at a time
    $4.36 Propane 3.49/gal 5 gal/pour or $4.36/ mug in fuel cost
    $0.15 thermocouple wear and tear... $61/ 100 Uses is $.61 / 4 $.15
    $10.30 to tin the inside is (safe to drink from) is $10.30 for metal and flux each
    $1.00 the handle is drill and tapped, screwed in place... Lets say $1.00 ea
    $8.00 the handle and coin base are brazed on stay-silv 15 we are looking at $4.00 ea mug lets double that for gas
    $10.83 Polishing I'm using a $65 exl lets hope I can do 6 with it so $10.83
    $0.39 Lets say a pound of lost petrobond $1.48
    $2.56 flap wheel for interior 15.33/6
    $40.09
     
  4. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Pricing is always a tough issue. Too high, no one wants it. Too low, screw yourself by devaluing all your hard work. I like to ask this question....
    Go find me another one? If ya can't, up goes the price. I see people drop stupid money on stupid disposable stuff. No reason they can't pony
    up the cash for a special one off or limited run item. That's your #1 selling point! Capitalize on it my friend!

    As horrible as this is going to sound, a gallery owner once told someone I know, "Poor people don't buy art!" There is pounds of truth to that statement.
    Some people feel the need to equate high cost with high quality or value and they get a good feeling from coughing up the dough.

    $250 is TOTALLY fair for that mug. HT1, you cannot price that mug with your method. If that was the case, my bronze roses should be about 16bucks.

    We used to pay 100-120bucks for a boring german beer flask with some engraving on it. And they pounded those out by the thousands.
    Here is my current etsy shop. If people buy my stuff, great. If not, I don't care. https://www.etsy.com/shop/HandCraftedLanterns
     
  5. HT1

    HT1 Gold Banner Member

    I get the same as you TY

    V/r HT1
     
  6. Jason

    Jason Gold

    SO now you KNOW your direct cost, what do you figure your time is worth? A skilled foundryman that owns and operates his own foundry has GOT to be worth 50bucks an hr right? After all, the unskilled worker BUMS at mcd's are demanding 15an hr to sneeze in your food? They lack decades of experience, and possess zero appreciable skills and not much risk if ya think about it.
    4hrs of labor is 200bucks, add your direct cost and guess what? $250 or the mug stays in the shop. Selling it any cheaper is doing yourself and any one else that makes something like this a disservice.
     
  7. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    It's going to depend an awful lot on who your customer is. Are they one offs all the time, or can you sell four to the committee as prizes or awards at the reunion dinner? This won't be sold to the masses and unless they cost 50 bucks most people wouldn't buy it for themselves. But their wife would. So would the Legion or VFW post or ship's reunion committee. And they will pay. But it's up to you to find them.

    Time and materials is a convenient formula but something is only worth what someone will give you for it. Unfortunately this is so unique that fair market value pricing isn't an option, so time and materials will have to be the method. For a skilled tradesman with very little overhead, $50/hr is reasonable money. I charge that for my semi-skilled laborers but I have a lot of overhead. 100% markup on low cost materials and 40-50% on high value materials is reasonable. So with provided shell and coin you're at

    $80 for low cost materials
    $22.50 markup on shell (you still have to receive it, handle it, clean it, take the risk of having to replace it, etc)
    $100 labor (if 2 hours is really how long it takes).
    $50 to take the order, package, and take to the post office (what? Your time is suddenly worth nothing? There's a solid hour there)

    Looks like David was spot on at $250

    Bear in mind that there is a cost involved in acquiring and storing all of your low cost items so that 100%profit can easily get eaten up in trips to the propane shop, lowes, etc.

    Regardless of how many you sell, you have to cast at least 4 at a time. What if you cast 8 and keep the parts in inventory? Your fixed costs per piece and the finishing costs remain the same but your casting time increases by maybe 2hrs? Now you have some latitude and can lower your price accordingly, particularly on orders of multiple quantities as long as your goal is $50/hour. The handling and administrative costs can go down accordingly as well. This strategy comes with a certain amount of risk that you won't sell through your inventory, and therein lies the rub. If you're confident in your market, then have at it.

    One last thing- free shipping is a profit killer!

    Boy do I miss BobS


    Pete
     
    Jason likes this.
  8. HT1

    HT1 Gold Banner Member

    I don't know how they do it, Tape and Packing Material is a killer... I charge shipping and Packaging, not SH... Bubble wrap should not be so expensive

    V/r HT1
     
  9. Junkyard

    Junkyard Copper

    HT1,
    +1 on Petee's reply. I'll add this for your consideration. Your comment above caught my attention. First, profit is not required to be fair. It's okay to make a killing on some castings, and do others at near cost. It's your business, you get to decide what your margins will be on your products. How you determine this will be partially based on what you feel your niche market will bear, and knowing your customer, as Petee mentioned above. Second, how many of these do you really want to make, and how often. You mentioned the PITA factor. I think its a sharp looking mug with lots of marketability, but do you enjoy making them? If this product becomes as popular and in demand as some of your other products, will you be groaning or smiling every time you receive a new mug order? Your an accomplished craftsman, don't sell yourself short. Set the price as high as needed to make you smile.

    My two cents
     
    oldironfarmer and Jason like this.
  10. I agree wholeheartedly. Profit on artistic work should not be based on cost. Artist generally struggle because there are many artists doing good work and the vast majority of the potential customer base is not very educated. Michelangelo only succeeded because of wealthy benefactors who understood his genius and supported his endeavors. Had it not been for them his work would have been more limited and we would never have heard of him. The majority of potential customers would be just as happy with a $5 plastic copy of the mug, even if it is not dishwasher safe.
     
    Jason likes this.
  11. Jason

    Jason Gold

    JT would pay me a couple mil for it. He's dumb enough to do it.
     
  12. HT1

    HT1 Gold Banner Member

    this is not at all the direction I wanted this thread to Go... First off Technically I feel that most of what is Do is not art but rather Craft... 2 reasons, It's a skill I have learned how to do, and secondly most of what i do I feel is practical... A Mug designed as a Momento of A high Moment in an Individuals life is Crafted. But in the End it is a mug ... Have a beer... The Plaques I do are less practical ...

    I have sort of Half taken the Advice offered here I have raised the High end Price severely, While keeping the Entry level practical ... There are alot of different ways I can execute the Mug... Right Now the One pictured would sell for $290 + SHipping

    V/r HT1
     
  13. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Gold Banner Member

    Seems fair to me, that mug is awesome! Apologies for my small part in dragging the thread off course, it's an interesting topic for someone like me who has only sold a couple of castings, all to friends, and all for 'friend' prices.

    Jeff
     
  14. HT1

    HT1 Gold Banner Member

    I personally think my new design is better... Rather then Brazing in a stainless liner, I line the interior with Tin like Copper pans... easier always works cheaper... I dont like that the screws are visible when done this way, but it is a good trade off.. By casting the ships info into the Handle the customer does not have to mount a coin to personalize the mug if they dont want to...

    The top of the Mug is Flat... the Head on the Beer caused that lopsided look


    [​IMG]
     
    Rtsquirrel and joe yard like this.
  15. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Looks good HT1. Your commitment to quality control is commendable.....100% tested!

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  16. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Ill clean up the off topic stuff in a little bit... We are a foundry forum, not a art critique forum.... :)
     
  17. joe yard

    joe yard Silver

    I hope no one minds but since this has gone in this direction I just wanted to post a pic of a lamp my son made me and the wife. It falls into the craft art thing. I am trying to steer him in the direction of the foundry. He is showing some interest in foundry work but his is strictly for artistic reasons where mine is more on the practical side. This is not to say I do not appreciate art, I do. I just see art in metal and mechanical more than paint and stone.

    I thought the lamp was a great gift. Some might not see it as art but it just said something to me... Other than there went a large part of my used plumbing fixtures.
    What do you guys think?
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Cool looking lamp Joe. The downside to those is there are 5000 of them for sale on etsy. Kinda a fad at the moment. When I was in the military in the 90's, I took an old clothes iron and turned it into a lamp. It hung off the wall and was a reading light. Friends of mine thought I was some kind of artist magician. I said, it's just a lamp.
    If you look in the background of this photo, you'll see my example of Pop art. It worked for an airforce dorm. This photo was taken of us heading out to the clubs in Luxembourg one night. We looked like the mob. That's me in the purple tie. We had Buzz Aldrin visit our squadron and the guy on the right suited him up for a ride in an F16.. A few weeks later, he got orders to work life support on AF one in DC. Amazing what a phone call from the right guy can do.

    153081837379583739805922210082.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
    Kurtis Kiesel likes this.
  19. joe yard

    joe yard Silver

    Looking good Jason!
    I looked much better in my military years.
    Joe
     
  20. HT1

    HT1 Gold Banner Member

    actually a really expensive lamp... Pipe and fittings are out the roof... I considered doing some Steampunk, or some Egyptian reproductions... I dont think either one are best done in castings... even the Mug I could do it without casting any parts... Not My skill though.. I could acquire the Tinsmithing skills easy enough... But that would not be Me... Besides, I know enough shit already

    V/r HT1
     

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