I do really like the lamp. I never gave any thought to the cost of the fittings. Back in my younger days I spent most week ends at the scrap yard and still have several hundred Lb of fittings that the steel thief’s missed. The real value to me was that it was a gift from my son. I am sure that the guys that will be the keeper of the mugs will see it the same way. Being it is something that represents a significant time in there lives. They will, like a good tool never own it. Just cherish it until it is time to pass it on. Joe
gonna revive this! a fellow contacted me today wanting to distribute my Plaque products through His Brick and morter and Online Store, I offered them to him at 66% of my normal asking Price ... after offending me, He Backpedaled really hard .. Great product worth the cost all that.. But too Expensive for Retail... Am I not Retailing them??? when I sale them, and yes I wish I moved 100 Pieces a Day, But I'm moving more then I can Make and turning down customers custom projects... it's no secret, everything is out on facebook... Am I missing something? Thanks in advance V/r HT1
You were more than fair offering them at 66%. You are not pounding these out by the hundreds. How did he offend you?
I have some very blunt and pointed opinions that may best be discussed one on one rather than on an open forum if you want to hear them.
Your brick and mortar retailer is talking to the wrong foundryman. And theres nothing wrong with either the retailer or the foundryman. You just have different markets. When i was a kid we had a diner in my little hometown. If three of us went in for breakfast and ordered pancakes old Lee would make 3 manhole covers and bring them to one guy, then go back and make 3 more and bring them to the next guy, etc. A one man operation. And you knew what to expect, how much you were going to pay, and how long it was going to take. (Awhile). Lots of folks complained and he was unapologetic. All of his equipment was his original 50s vintage stainless, siphon brewed coffee, beige china,... the real deal. He was rarely crowded and seemed to barely get by, but that's beside the point. He had it the way he wanted it. He was in business over 40 years. Or, you could go to Denny's or HoJo's, or heaven forbid, McDonalds. There's really nothing wrong with these places, but your retailer needs to find a Denny's because that's the crowd he's selling to. Pete
True! Some people want a hamburger and others want a steak. But don't ask me to sell you a steak at hamburger prices. Call china for that bs.
his implication that I was trying to cheat him... was I being fair.. I offered basically my cost +$20/hour for labour... Quite literally I was giving up a 1/3 of my potential earning... I know that if I offered my work at a lower Price point I would move more, and once I started moving more I could improve my output and cost, so I would eventually make More $$$... But right now I need what I'm getting just to keep the doors open, come on I almost had to Close because I did not have the disposable income to reline the Furnace... Thank God I had alot of Dead inventory, and some loyal Customers that helped me out in my time of need... I suspect old boy has been buying cheap overseas products... and will continue to, and eventually I will begin to cut into his and other peoples business, because my quality is TOP notch. This is not the first person to ask to sell my products, this was the first that had anything to offer me.. I mean Really I could probably find a Mexican/india/ Chinese Foundry mail My patterns to them and pay $12/ piece for alot of my stuff... cut my price point in half and sell more... Those of you that have been to my facebook page know it's not about the Money, it's about the art and history of the Pieces Sorry ranting V/r HT1
this is probably the one subject where we should have a private forum section... because this needs discussed, but it needs to stay withing the fence V/r HT1
David and I were talking about this pricing issue a year or so ago with some guy selling tiny chickens (like 2inches tall bronze pieces) for $125. I think some things are meant to be farmed out to china. The whole china thing has seriously screwed peoples thinking and it's high time to edjumacate them. My mother CALLED her attorney the other day she's used for years that drew up paperwork to protect my 99yr old grandfather's financial interests. Bill comes yesterday. 15mins on the phone >>>>>>>>>> $700bucks! I'm 100% on board with tariffs on these shithole countries that think it's okay to pay a human being 5cents an hr and no bathroom breaks. Every man has a certain and limited time here on planet earth and it's up to each man to place a value on those irreplaceable minutes. Take a peek at Fritz's video here concerning pricing artwork. He has a few tiny holes in his thinking, but he's on the right track. He has the same issue you do. While his labor and hours is on the sculpting and not sweating out in the heat in the humidity, his value is his 2 decades of working clay. And the kid is only 24, he is one of the few artists that I would put my money on and will have a successful career throughout his life. Fritz's issue is called a GALLERY. Same as your retailer trying to shift your goods. An art gallery is the WORST at trying to score a home run on some poor bastards hard work. SO the art sits there for years and collects dust while they push the art that nets them the most bucks. Btw, Fritz's solution, he is starting his own gallery and internet presences. I think it's a solid plan and will stop the stupid high markup that prevents sales. I'm not making jack squat ($) on this casting thing at the moment and I really didn't start it to do so. However, I WILL NOT give shit away to make a sale. This would hurt those of you actually trying to eat by casting. That wouldn't be fair. With that said, I would like to get better and maybe make some beer money in my older age. Get your Etsy shop running, it costs pretty much nothing. Next thing if I were you, roll with YT, keep videos short, less than 5mins and link the hell out of everything. Etsy links to YT, FB links to Etsy and YT links to Etsy. I don't have many subs on YT, but I consider probably half of them as potential customers. Who knows, someone may see something I did somewhere and hand me a few bucks. I got lucky like this once with a rose. Rich? nope, having fun? Yup!
I work in the foundry industry. It is a tough slog One foundry owner had a standing offer to teach anyone proper costing (even to his direct competitors) He said the worst thing was suppliers who didn't underatand their costs, bid stupid low, lost their shirts, went out of business, but in the meantime ruined the market for real buinesses In my semi producti0n foundry I start the day many tens of thousands of dollars in the hole each morning when I turn on the lights and hope things go good enough to at least break even by the end of the day Overhead is a killer Insurance, lawyers, accountants Taxes Depreciation Utilities I just shut down for 2 days of mandatory First Aid training > who is paying me for that - China? har de har Keep small, keep on a cash basis, or be huge, in between is horrible I get dreamers and schemers all the time looking for castings, I tell them they can't even afford to talk to me It is a sad situation , but once in a while I donate to a good cause, I am making some candy molds now at no charge, because you could buy a house for what I would have to charge for them.... You are making a totally custom item, hand crafted by an artisan, the Brits say "bespoke" love that word How much do you need to live on for a year? How many items do you sell a year. Divide. There is your bare minimum, then 10 to 25 times that for profit, inflation and growth Lilely a huge number, high cost of living in the first world and low productivity as a one man band Never apologize or back down (Some) people pay for a Rolex when a Timex does exactly ther same thing Never apologize or back down Let the Wal Mart shoppers walk, you only need and want the people who understand value - find the Rolex buyers....not easy, maybe not possible Best of luck
Spoke to HT1 on the phone for a couple of hours tonight. Great conversation!! Dog is telling me its time for bed, he is usually right... Started looking around on YT and found this site http://12hourawards.com/section_castings_raisedaluminum.htm which along the lines of what HT1 does (but likely without the same amount of hands on craftsmanship) Take a look at the prices on the cast items. I think we are all way low on pricing. Have to go to bed now, dog (Duffy) says so.....
WHOA.... I don't know what kind of numbers that site is doing, but without sounding too crude...... People may not like getting the high hard one, but they usually enjoy a gentle FINGERING! People do expect to pay up, it goes back to that "perceived" value. Hey Ht... DO you have any contacts inside of some squadrons or whatever you guys called the units in the navy? A few hundred bucks for a bad ass mug as a parting gift when some officer pcs's is a no brainer. Especially when made by an ex navy seaman.... I watched our f-16 weenies drop big cash on going away presents for guys when they moved on.
And that's aluminum, not bronze. I don't think they're making a killing. You have to have income to support the infrastructure. They have a 15 day turnaround. I was in the county courthouse the other day and waited in line next to the dedication plaque. It was probably 30" wide by 42" high, typical bronze. Standing at the wall sighting down the lettering I was surprised how crooked the lettering was, it looks like it was hand placed with no guide. I think it's about 50 years old.
Well an 8" x 10" bronze plaque is $399.95 http://12hourawards.com/product_castings_raised_bronzeraisedlogo.htm
https://www.erielandmark.com/pricing/ This is where I send people that want to try and dicker with me about pricing... The Navy Plaques... I love the $60/Hr art development fee... You have all seen me spend Months Carving projects... Imagine if one person had to pay for that... which Of course Is why I'm pretty stingy with Custom castings... V/r HT1
It looks like 12hourawards.com has found their Denny's(s). They're probably set up similar to the company HT1 talked about in his OP. again, nothing wrong with that. Because of the custom nature of their services, they are probably very heavy on time spent with the customer and in their graphic design departments. Internet sales are probably more profitable for them as it cuts down on time shitting around with indecisive and time-vacuuming customers at the counter. And although they may have items or other functions that are performed in-house because it's cost effective to do so, they email their vector or other file to whatever commercial manufacturer that is specifically set up to produce them and wait for it to arrive via UPS. Their foundry department has zero employees. They may even use erielandmark.com! Erie Landmark is a true manufacturer but if you go custom in anyway then pricing can go big-boy pretty quick. Their standard patterns are inventoried and pulled per job and returned to their shelf until next time -or something like that. They were produced at a risk of little or no ROI (return on investment) and at no small expense I'm sure. Using modern processes and procedures to make them is certainly where a lot of their money continues to be invested. These guys are real founders with real chops, real skin in the game, and real relationships with their banker. And most of all, real overhead. The art development fee is another topic. Note it doesn't mention pattern making. We're talking about a person in front of a computer screen with Photoshop or some specialty design software creating something pleasing to send to an output device. But first it has to go back through customer service to be sent to the customer to be proofread. Then changes. Then more emails. Then a couple phone calls, etc, etc. THEN they make or cut or burn the pattern. I charge $75/hr for design services in my printshop with no apologies. And I always get enough of a deposit on a job to cover that. You would be amazed at how many people will cancel a job after we've invested hours and hour of design time, but because they're not walking out with print on paper they shouldn't have to pay anything because we didn't "do" anything. Sheesh! Pete
12hoursawards are using the Rubber stamp making equipment i have done with villageimpressions in the past, so there is basically little to no pattern making, you glue the rubber to the proper size and thickness backer... pour some PUNB sand on it vibrate, let it set for 6 minutes, and pour... absolutely awsome for simple 2D designs, which is why the Plaques they call Bas relief are so much more expensive, that is no doubt done by a talented 3D graphics guy, I tinkered with it with some success, but because of the learning curve I have stuck to Old school carving... Their design work is rather simple and is probably done on a good word processor... and their pricing is rather deceptive, that low low price is for a LARGE order not a single piece... But I agree their foundry work is outsourced V/r HT1
I handle loading the pricing for a large wholesale plumbing outfit. Those fittings and pipe are only going to get more expensive over the course of the year. I've already enacted several increases on steel products this year already.
