Setting up for some iron melts, need advice on oil burners

Discussion in 'General foundry chat' started by Zapins, Feb 7, 2023.

  1. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    I'm setting up for a few iron melts. Got a new super salamander crucible in the mail on the way. I'm going to be using propane for my first melt, but I am curious. I'd like to use diesel eventually.

    Anyone got some photos of their oil burners? Specifically the orifice that let's the oil into the furnace.

    I've tried a few previous versions of oil burners but they never seem to work and I've just gone back to propane. Would be nice to have the option.
     
  2. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Zapins,

    I have been using a Hago Siphon Nozzle rated .75L / min. I think this is a system you tried before and did not work out for you. So, I will not go into detail unless you wish to revisit that setup. In brief summary I pump diesel at 12PSI and .18 to .19 L per min through a needle valve and using 40 PSI compressed atomizing air and a small blower for combustion air.

    That system has been very reliable over the past few years requiring minimal maintenance. I can melt 60 pounds of iron in 90 mins consuming about 5 gallons of fuel.

    If you want more details at some point, I’d be happy to provide them.

    Denis
     
  3. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Sure, would like to see how yours is set up. How do you pump fuel into it? Some sort of fuel pump?
     
  4. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    -I use a Holley automotive fuel pump. Black model 12V. No tank pressurization---not needed with the pump. A cheap fuel pump let me down mid melt after not too many hours service. The Holley is bullet-proof.
    -I use 40 PSI (I upped it in the 4 months) atomizing air
    -I use a flow meter and run .19L/min
    -I blow combustion air with a throttled down 20V leaf blower.

    Here are pics of the burner tube in its original form. The fin was used as a mounting positioner. Now I just use a piece of angle iron to "lay" tub in as it enters the tuyere. The multiple spaced holes were made to allow various positions for the nozzle.

    The mount for the nozzle could be simpler than I originally built---just a couple simple centering legs would do fine. The nozzle itself is plumbed conventionally as recommended by Delevan/Hago. It would have been simpler to simply run the fuel lines and air line straight into the burner tube rather than running combustion air straight in. But this works. The heavy chunk on round that plugs the small tube on the outside could be lighter and simpler. Still working though. The dimensions of the nozzle and fittings sort of dictates the minimum diameter of the Burner tube.

    Be sure to keep the burner tube back in the tuyere a couple inches and out of the swirling flame in the furnace. Otherwise the flame will eat it up in a few melts. Kept out of the flame it will last "forever." Also keeping it back gives more time for the air/fuel mix to ignite within the furnace---flame does not develop in full operation until the mix is 6 inches or so out of the tube. Remove the tube from the furnace before you shut off combustion air and atomizing air as they keep the nozzle and particularly the o-ring cool. Shut the air off and leave the tube in the furnace=cooked o-ring.


    Burner Overview.JPG Nozzle Mount.JPG
     
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  5. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

  6. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    No. Mine cost on the order of 200 bucks. Seems like a lot until a cheap one quits. When you buy a pump, you have to be sure it is OK for diesel as diesel can be a problem for gasoline-only pumps.

    Denis
     
  7. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    When you get a chance please snap a pic or get the model number. I'm just going to buy the same pump you have. I can reuse the Delavan siphon nozzle and brass parts I previously bought but connect it to the diesel pump for ease of use.

    What flow meter do usually use? I'm going to get one too and just copy your setup. That way I know it works haha.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2023
  8. Tops

    Tops Silver Banner Member

    Denis, is your flow sensor meter thingie also control the flow or it is just reporting?
     
  9. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    It is just reporting. It could be used as an on/off valve but not a flow rate control. But I just use the instantaneous and total flow functions.

    Denis
     
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  10. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    I was busy casting yesterday. But, today I went out and dug out castings (and was happy!).

    I also opened up the wood box that contains the pump and metering device.
    To get full exposure of the pump would have been difficult. But I think these photos may help.
    Don't be mislead by the hose entering the frame mid way above on top. It is just a loose quick connect that hooks up to the burner tube an is just hanging here for no good reason.

    Pump and Meter Box.JPG
    Body of the "Black" pump
    Pump1.JPG
    TheUnder surface with the identifying numbers. Pump2.JPG



    Hopefully the numbers on the bottom will get you to the pump you need. I saw no other markings on the pump.

    That pump just did its thing again yesterday.... They label it as "quiet" in their adds. But it does make more noise than those little cheapies. But, then again, it works every time.

    Denis
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2023
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  11. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Photos can't be accessed?
     
  12. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Fixed I think. Sometimes the software for these forums can drive you crazy. The images showed fine on my end.

    Denis
     
  13. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Thanks. Photos are fixed.

    So I see a fuel filter there. Whats the line up? Does it go fuel filter > pump > flow meter > furnace?

    What fuel filters and hoses are you using?

    Does it matter where the fuel tank sits? Above below same level as pump?

    The pump went up to $270 because of course it did: https://www.amazon.com/Holley-12-815-1-Black-Electric-Fuel/dp/B00029JC80/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=187T46OGD789U&keywords=holley+black+fuel+pump&qid=1675987443&sprefix=holley+blavk,aps,187&sr=8-2&ufe=app_do:amzn1.fos.c3015c4a-46bb-44b9-81a4-dc28e6d374b3

    Also how do you regulate how much fuel comes out? Do you control the voltage or is there a dial on the fuel pump?
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2023
  14. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    The pump will not produce a vaccum so far as I know. So my 5 gal can sits on the ground just inches higher than the fuel pump.

    The order of events is tank->shut off->fuel filter->pump->meter->quick connect->filter in the unbroken line into the nozzle.
    The filters are cheap Wix brand fuel filters. The meter is very easily fouled by debris of which there is plenty in my fuel cans and the nozzle is relatively easily fouled. Since adding the filters, I have had zero fouling issues in hundreds of hours of operation. Prior to the filters, I had intermittent problems----uggghhh. THe filter in question has been in use for at least a year.

    Flow regualtion is with a needle valve. For me .19L/Min is the sweet spot.

    BTW, if you look closely at the photo of the wood box you cna see the filter has a ton of crud in it. I am changing it prior to next melt on Sat.

    Denis
     
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  15. Tops

    Tops Silver Banner Member

    Denis, are these the highlights of your setup?
    -.75GPH Delavan siphon nozzle/adapter
    -40 PSI siphon air
    -12 PSI fuel pump
    -leafblower combustion air through efficient Y-pipe
    -multiple fuel filters
    -controlled (needle valve) and measured (pelton wheel and readout) fuel flow of .19 L/minute

    Thanks!
     
  16. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Yes, .19L/Min or 3 GPH
    Siphon air is actually mostly atomizing air.
     
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  17. Tops

    Tops Silver Banner Member

    Thanks Denis!
     
  18. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Someone asked about the fuel filter I use. I suspect there are many that would work fine, but the one that has worked well for me is a Wix 33001. FOr completeness of information...

    upload_2023-2-10_21-54-8.png


    Denis
     
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  19. Tops

    Tops Silver Banner Member

    Thanks again Denis. I just got a siphon nozzle and adapter, and I am looking forward to trying it out. I hope I am not offending Zap or Castaway with glomming questions and pictures onto their threads.
    -Do these basic dimensions make sense? I went off the Delevan nozzle having a .750" (19mm) hex body. I think I have a piece of muffler pipe that'd fit for the main tube... :)
    Main air tube 2+ 1/4" OD (57mm) x 17 +1/8" (435mm), leave at least 4+7/8" (125mm) clearance to stick into furnace
    Angled tube 1 +9/16" OD (40mm) x 10-degree angle

    -Did you flare your own copper tubes or get them in that way? My nozzle and adapter came without fittings. I have seen variations with sweated (soldered) tubes and some with fittings for brakes lines.

    denis_burner_dims.jpg
     
  20. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    I used compression fittings, though flares or sweted fitting would work just as well I should think.

    Your dimensions look to be in the ball park.

    Just keep the tip of the burner tube back out of the furnace cavity an inch or twon so it does no9t get white hot and gradually disappear. Keep the combustion air and atomizing air on until a couple minutes after removing the burner from the furnace at the end of a melt. That cools and protects the o-ring. It is easy to just shut down everything and leave the tube in the white-hot furnace as you finish a melt. (There is a good chance you may forget and do that in an early melt as there is a lot on the mind until certain things become routine.) So doing will result in radiant heat overheating the nozzle o-ring. If you keep the tube back and keep the air on, you tube should not even blue from heating oxidation.

    Denis
     
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