Setting up for some iron melts, need advice on oil burners

Discussion in 'General foundry chat' started by Zapins, Feb 7, 2023.

  1. Tops

    Tops Silver Banner Member

    Thanks Denis! I really appreciate all the info, links, and pictures.
     
  2. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    Exactly my experience. You can find replacement o-rings on ebay or probably from Delevan. I've cooked a couple and have changed them out as a matter of maintenance as well. They've come in handy and they're cheap insurance.

    Pete
     
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  3. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Yes, replacement o-rings should ideally be made of viton as it tolerates high temperature better than common hardware store o-rings. That is what comes OEM in the Delevan. I keep one taped to the burner tube just in case.

    Denis
     
  4. Tops

    Tops Silver Banner Member

    Thanks Pete, thanks Denis.
    The nozzle I got is a generic stainless one. I found out later that it does not take a normal O-ring. Where the O-ring would be is a tapered seat.
    It was fun using Google translate until I confirmed which symbol was for air and which was for fuel.
    I am coming up short finding an accurate print for it online, some other vendors seem to be using a print which does not match 1:1 with what you get.

    burner_leta1.png
     
  5. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    I’d be interested in seeing a picture of that tapered seat. We had a member here who went to a lot of trouble to make his own nozzle sans o-ring and although I believe he was successful it would have been so much easier just to buy one out of the box! Is that adapter standard pipe fittings?

    Pete
     
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  6. Tops

    Tops Silver Banner Member

    Here are some pics. There might be something in the bore but it's hard to tell. It seemed to do a good job with water, pic is approx. 30 PSI (2.1 bar) air with no regulation on the water.

    tops_nozzle1.jpg tops_nozzle2.jpg tops_nozzle3.jpg
     
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  7. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    That does look like good atomization. Maybe you are onto the new solution! It looks like this nozzle is rated 2.75 gal per hour---is that right? If so, it may siphon enough that the fuel may not need pressurization. That you can probably determine hooking it up to diesel and just shooting it without burning into a backstop of some sort and measuring fuel siphoned vs time and recovering the unburnt fuel.

    Denis
     
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  8. Ironsides

    Ironsides Silver

    Using pumps driven by electric motors is gross overkill when a simple idea using compressed air to pressurize oil can be used. Why use a expensive low voltage power supply when a compressor has all that. If you are that one in a million who does not have a compressor in your shed you could use another propane tank to pressurize your oil. The propane trapped in the oil tank can used another time so no propane is wasted.

    I found a video on youtube that is very similar to my set up. In the video he has a regulator on a old propane tank filled with WMO, so on my set up I use the regulator on my compressor. Also in his video he has a heater to warm up oil after the oil leaves his propane tank, I have thought about that for a long time so I use propane to preheat my furnace which takes only 90 seconds to get to a bright red heat. I have wondered if there is much a difference in price using propane for 90 seconds or using electricity to heat a large amount of waste motor oil? Also check out in the video of him using a water cooled ingot molds. zapins check out how easy this burner is to start and run.
     
  9. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    There are a few reasons I like using an automotive fuel pump for fuel supply. One, I need not interrupt the melt to add fuel to the main supply tank. Sure I could use a ten gallon tank and that would more than cover any melt I would choose to do. But moving an 80 to 100 pound tank, a necessity for my circumstances and likely a fair percentage of melters, would be cumbersome. Second, I am leery of a pressurized fuel tank and fuel supply. My concern is that any leak that might develop is going to simply empty the tank perhaps rapidly resulting in a worrisome amount of diesel in proximity and uphill from the building I work out of. Thirdly, the pump provides a constant pressure of fuel to the nozzle and therefore a constant flow rate. So, maybe it is overkill for some, but I made the decision to use it after some thought and would not care to change to a pressurized tank for my purposes.

    Denis
     
  10. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    I'll add a fourth concern: if a person solves the "constant pressure problem" by permanently attaching an air line with a pressure regulator set on, say, 10 pounds, if the regulator fails the pressure in the tank could easily exceed the tank's capacity and then there would be an instantaneous release of a large volume of fuel. I have indeed had regulators fail from dirt contamination and just jamming open.

    A fuel pump system can also fail, of course, but at least the flow from a broken or disconnected fuel line downstream from the pump will be the size of a pencil at low pressure.

    Denis
     
  11. crazybillybob

    crazybillybob Silver Banner Member

    That large volume of instantly atomized Fuel when the tank pops from over pressure near an open flame or a red hot furnace lining is a recipe for a boom that could wake the neighbors or brake a window plus a fun fire ball that will remove the hair if not the skin from exposed flesh.
     
  12. Tops

    Tops Silver Banner Member

    Denis, did you use regular nominal inches 'black' plumbing pipes for this burner or something thinner walled and/or more exotic?
    Then it would make sense that the main pipe would be 2" nominal ID SCH40 or 2 3/8" OD rather than my guess of 2 1/4" OD.
    Thinking of making the tuyere on the medium furnace (the cut-up barrel) compatible with either a Delavan or a Big Brute style assembly.
     
  13. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    I did not use anything exotic. I also do not think it was black pipe but rather a thiner wall tube with maybe a .1" wall. I think it was typical muffler pipe. What wall thickness you use probably does not matter much, but sched 40 black pipe would be pretty heavy in that dimension. I can measure tomorrow if you would like. Since I carry mine in and out each session, lightness is good. Properly positioned, the tube gets only modestly hot----not glowing by any means. Early on I had mine poked too far into the furnace and it got way too hot. Now it is positioned back in the tuyere well out of the flame swirl and the vaporized fuel does not ignite until it is out of the tube a few inches.

    Denis

    Added later: I was out in the shop for a few mins and found an off-cut of the tubing. It is just a trifle under 2.5" OD (About 2.470 and is close to 2.25 ID welded steel.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2023
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  14. Tops

    Tops Silver Banner Member

    Thanks Denis, the offcut confirmation is perfect. I have some spare 2.25" (57.2mm) OD muffler pipe that would save me from investing in SCH40 or hassling the local exhaust specialist.

    tops_siphon_mpipe1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2023
  15. Tops

    Tops Silver Banner Member

    The local auto parts had the exhaust pipes for reasonable money. Brought home some 2.5" OD x 24" L and 2" OD x 18" long.
    I am fiddling with making some templates https://www.blocklayer.com/pipe-notcheng for fitting up the 2 pipes. The increase in inner diameter from existing to new is making the siphon nozzle easier to fit and center with the compression fitting in place. Plus it looks so shiny :) !

    Thanks Denis for fielding my ?'s and thanks Zapins for letting me play in your sandbox (thread)!

    tops_siphon_mpipe2.jpg

    tops_siphon_mpipe3.jpg
     
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  16. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    I'd probably shorten the side tube considerably and probably that is your intent. 6 or 8 inches should be plenty and should be convenient. Actually both of them could be a lot shorter. There will be no heat rise felt a foot from the business end.

    Denis
     
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