Starting build with 30 gallon barrel

Discussion in 'Furnaces and their construction' started by Bentation Funkiloglio, May 23, 2020.

  1. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Any reason not to mash together a short piece of blue stuff tubing to line your vent hole and give the ceramic fiber a little more protection?

    Jeff
     
    Bentation Funkiloglio likes this.
  2. Adding extra weight would be the only downside that comes to mind. Can't mash it againt ceramic fiber, so think that I still need to make a form. When wet/uncured, material has zero structural strength.
     
  3. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    How big are the largest chunks of grog in your blue plastic refractory?

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  4. Rice Krispy size, maybe a bit smaller.

    Chunkiness of final product was mostly due to refractory stiffness. Really had to put some weight behind ramming. Adding water could have made material less stiff per Pete's comments. In fact, I probably would have added a little water if I'd had more experience with this refractory and had a better feeling for how it moves, cures, etc.
     
  5. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    I'd like to play with some........someday. I suspect that it takes some heavy working to add water. Besides placement, one of the other advantages of plastic is being premixed and very minimal water content and this among other things is probably why you can just slam the ham to it with heat. You need some very rugged high shear mixing action to achieve the state of the commercial plastics. If you water/dilute it, you may lose some of that initial thermal resilience.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
    Bentation Funkiloglio likes this.
  6. At $38 per 50lb box, definitely worth exploring ...depending on shipping costs :).
     
  7. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Sounds like I need to know more about Blu-Ram installation instructions. Those instructions must exist somewhere on the Web, but I spent the better part of a half hour looking This morning (and some more casual looking Previously) with nothing coming up. I sent an email to the refractory seller this morning. Hopefully he’ll have something.

    Denis
     
    Bentation Funkiloglio likes this.
  8. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Check the Vesuvius website Denis. I have the data sheet but no placement instruction.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
    Bentation Funkiloglio likes this.
  9. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Well, Kelly, that was the first place I looked. I could not find it on their website. I did just find some information uploaded by Scribd who shook me down for money (cancellable free trial in my case). As Pete said I think many of the admonition apply to installations measured from several inches to even feet. I did some more torch work this morning on samples and find it very tolerant to just heating it up to several hundred degrees in 1/2 to 3/4” thicknesses at least. There is no way I could follow their recommendations in my little furnace anyway.

    Denis
     
    Bentation Funkiloglio likes this.
  10. First FIRE!!

    12844628-CFB1-4C1D-A73B-267CE05D50A9.jpeg

    Couldn’t keep the damn thing lit, however. :) Didnt find good fuel/air mix using just siphon nozzle and compressor. On a more positive note, I’m pretty sure that I didn’t melt o-ring.

    Never even had a chance to flip on shop vac using my brand new harbor freight speed controller.

    Think that my compressor regulator was the big problem. Doesn’t seem to keep constant pressure under 10 psi. Probably need to throw another, better regulator in line.

    Think that I’ll try heating up with propane first and then switch over to diesel. That’d probably be a lot easier. Once furnace get hot, I don’t believe that slight variations in compressor output will be as big of a problem.
     
  11. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    Once you initially get a sustained flame with a small amount of fuel and air and then dial up your fuel, you will likely need to raise your compressed air higher than 10psi. In the absence of a blower the increased compressed air will give you the combustion air you need. You can actually melt aluminum with just the compressed air if you dial it in just right. Once you turn on your blower youll need to turn the compressed air back down and probably open your fuel valve some more. With an unpressurized fuel system utilizing a siphon burner the compressed air plays a couple different roles, sometimes in conflict with each other so there's a bit of finesse involved. There should be no need to preheat.
    Congrats on your first burn!

    Pete
     
    Bentation Funkiloglio likes this.
  12. Thanks @Petee716! Probably user error, but I prefer to believe that it's the diesel fuel's fault. :).
     
  13. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    I know where you're coming from! Lol. But given the process that we're using "flammability" and freshness of the fuel become less of a factor.
     
    Bentation Funkiloglio likes this.
  14. So, here is The Beast! Picture taken this evening while heat curing some furnace cement that I slathered over the ceramic fiber blanket. Just to help protect it against the elements.

    4ACE50AD-2E71-4ED9-A480-B01B706910EE.jpeg

    The dome inside top portion of furnace is approximately 6 inches in height covered by another 5 inches of fiber blanket. Dome is made from a Blu-Ram like plastic refractory. Super tough now that it’s cured. Unfortunately, also rather heavy weighing in at approx 30 lbs. This is only the refractory weight:). Seems to make a good/complete seal with lower half of furnace. Dome has 4 anchor points around side and 4 more vertically oriented anchors that are welded inside lid. Super securely attached.

    Welded together some metal that I had laying about to create some handles to make lifting lid easier and a swivel mechanism. Not too horribly unwieldy once you get use to handling The Beast’s upper half.

    The bottom portion of furnace is approximately 1 inch of mizzou wrapped in a few inches of fiber blanket. Interior diameter is 12 inches. Approximately, 12 to 13 inches high (interior). At full operational temps, outside skin gets a bit hotter than I’d like. Maybe a couple hundred degrees F. Perhaps a little less.

    Furnace is raised about 6 inches off ground to prevent it from sitting in water when it rains. Also, kept barrel lid intact, so I can cover furnace to protect interior from the elements.

    Put up a “privacy” brick wall in front of furnace to obscure its view from neighbor’s house. Reduced my house’s redneck quotient by a few points. :)

    Over all, pretty happy with the build. Need to address a couple/few issues that I’ve noticed during initial shakedown burns.

    — Think that I made vent hole too big at 6 inches in diameter. Will probably bring size down to 4 inches.

    — Due to height of domed lid, have a lot more volume in interior than I need. More space to heat. Probably can mitigate problem by increasing height of plinth. Perhaps, also add an inch or two of refractory horizontally along rim. Basically, create a ledge to help keep some more of the heat in.

    — I get a pretty good fire vortex swirling inside furnace, but a portion of flame from burner doesn’t make a full rotation before angling upwards. Don’t think that this is a big deal, but will keep an eye on it.

    Again, REALLY appreciate all the great advice from you all!!
     
  15. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Congrats on the progress Ben.

    Easy fix. Cast a disc or a reducer bushing insert from Mizzou.

    50 Vent Insert.jpg

    Do you have the ability to angle your burner downward slightly? The other thing you might experiment with is a refractory plate that contains the flame for a fraction of a revolution.

    I think you'll find a taller plinth to be beneficial. The upper region of the furnace is always hotter so it moves the crucible into a higher average temperature zone and given the existing flame pattern, probably even more so. Probably makes sense to cast plinths so they can be stacked. That way they can be easily inserted or removed, and use less material to replace as they are consumed. Downside is they may add a little more mass to your furnace. The plinths in many commercial furnaces are Silicon Carbide. They are expensive. You want them to be conductive as possible. I always thought the addition of some SiC blasting grit might be beneficial if it didn't reduce strength too much.

    I wouldn't worry too much about that. It'll probably climb a little more with soak and continuous use but you quickly reach the point of diminishing returns adding more insulation, considering the temperature gradient already achieved from inside to outside.

    You're well on your way. The rest is fine tuning.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
    Bentation Funkiloglio likes this.
  16. @Al2O3, what material do you use for forms? They look practically perfect.
     
  17. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    Way to go Ben. You've put a lot of time and effort into your build. Now the adventure really begins!

    Pete
     
    Bentation Funkiloglio likes this.
  18. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Extruded Polystyrene insulation board, the pink stuff and same I use for lost foam casting patterns. Depending upon the size shape you can potentially get more than one use, but the I usually just make them with no draft. You can quickly and easily machine and sand them to shape and stick them together with hot melt. Also god to use a glued cores for things like Tuyere openings. They can be removed with a sharp knife, power tool, or dissolved with solvent.........or just burnt out during cure. I usually wipe them down with past wax so they easily can be pealed off the refractory with my hands. I've cast some pretty complex refractory shapes using it as a mold or mold features. This furnace lid for example.

    7 Lid.jpg

    Best,
    Kelly
     
    Bentation Funkiloglio likes this.
  19. rocco

    rocco Silver

    Hey Bentation, this is a little off topic, but I don't know if you've had a chance to look at some of Kelly's (Al203) old posts, they're well worth devoting a little time reading, he is the king of foam.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
    Bentation Funkiloglio likes this.
  20. Very, very cool! I'll have to read up on this per @rocco's suggestion!
     

Share This Page