Tig aluminum issue

Discussion in 'General foundry chat' started by Zapins, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. cojo98v6

    cojo98v6 Copper

    I'll take some pictures tomorrow for you, its not pretty as it is showing its age, but works great.

    I use cheap fluid I get at Menards, probably like $3 a gallon. The pump is for water fountains, think you can get them for around $10. I bought a cheap torch too, its cheap quality but works.
     
  2. Jason

    Jason Gold

    lol... 13dollar torch... While it's true you can cobble together 50bucks worth of parts and push water through a cheap torch, I wouldn't do it with a quality CK torch.

    Here is a peak under the hood of a quality unit.
     
  3. HT1

    HT1 Gold Banner Member

    Here is a simple Summary of damn near everything that has been said so far

    http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/miller-syncrowave-250-welding-aluminum.html

    about all I can add is you really need to put that machine on a 60 amp breaker . Might want to cut off the AC and fridge and freezer, while welding If you get carried away you might trip the Main if those two things start at the same time ... and of course turn of the washer and driers, three largest loads on a residence


    V/r HT1
     
  4. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    But what thickness aluminum are we talking about??? I do up to 1/4” 6061 on a 20 amp breaker without difficulty. So, what alloy and what thickness? New clean stock, or salvaged from the manure holding tank? All makes a difference. And what filler metal? What settings? Frequency, preflow, flow rate, pulse? Not trying to be a wise guy but all the variables have to work together to work at all. So, if solutions are to be suggested, the big picture is needed.

    Denis
     
  5. cojo98v6

    cojo98v6 Copper

    I agree, my original thought on doing it was buy the cheap torch (think I paid around $30 for it) that way if I had to modify it I wouldn't feel bad if it did not work and was not out of a lot of money. If it worked I was going to buy a quality one, but surprisingly the cheap one has been working perfect for me, I would never of thought it would have last more than a year, guess I got lucky.

    I took some pictures of the torch and the cheap pump. The pump was used and given to me, it had stopped working is why. I just had to take the impeller off and clean/oil the shaft and been working since. The good thing about the windshield washer fluid is it as some soap in it, so it acts like a lubricant.

    After seeing the torch again I remembered I had to cut and braze on the female threaded connection from the original cable, I think it was male on the WP18. You probably could solder it, but it might get too hot and fall apart. Maybe silver solider would work better than lead/tin solder.

    If you do some searching on google or youtube I think you will find similar setups, probably a bit better, but mine does work and is as simple as it gets. With that being said, I have been collecting some used parts here and there and will be building a higher quality one at some point in the future. I want something that does look better and is a bit more compact.

    IMG_1429.JPG
    IMG_1430.JPG
    Probably the third time I've attempted to braze copper/brass, so the joints look a bit crude.

    IMG_1431.JPG
    just submerge the pump in the bucket and run the return line back too it.
     
  6. Jason

    Jason Gold

    I've been tig welding now around 3 years and have spent a lot of hrs at the table. While a water torch would be nice, I have found by the time my torch is too hot to handle, I'm ready for a break. I was running around 140 amps on some 1/8" in almost 2ft lengths. That's a lot of dabs and requires a lot of concentration. I'm not going watercooled for awhile. What I need now is a kick ass mig for about 4miles of stainless. :eek:
     
  7. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    That's a cool setup. Think I'll have to do something like that. Seems pretty straightforward. They also have kits on ebay for 100, which of course is over priced.

    I'll have to give the aluminum another try. I want to repair a wind vane that I think is aluminum. It is about 1/4" thick, not sure what alloy unfortunately.
     
  8. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Aluminum alloys vary widely (wildly?) with respect to welding. Some are essentially unweldable. If the vane is weldable, the raw edges may be essentially unweldable until abraded to bright metal with a carbide bit. Choosing an appropriate filler for an unknown alloy may complicate matters. This would be a trivial job if it were steel. Not so much for aluminum. Sufficient amperage is not likely to be the determinant of your success or failure. This already difficult problem is made worse since you don’t have some scrap of the same material to test out various filler rods on. You have to get the unknown solution right the first try. Good luck!

    How good are you with a band saw and angle grinder....;)

    Denis
     
  9. garyhlucas

    garyhlucas Silver

    Post a picture and maybe we can help you do it correctly. Is it cast or fabricated? That goes a long way in determining what allow it might be.

    Aluminum welding is made tough by the fact that it oxidizes so easily at welding temperatures. So on thin parts the back side is oxidizing like crazy if exposed to air, then it won't weld properly. Hollow parts benefit a lot by an Argon purge while welding. A backup block often helps too. Two simple techniques with the torch can help. Learn to keep the end of the filler rod in the argon bubble blanketing the weld puddle. Keeping it warm helps it wet right in, and not pulling it out where it instantly oxidizes in the air helps to keep the puddle clean. The second thing is when you finish welding don't pull the torch away. Let the post flow gas cover the weld puddle until it cools so it doesn't oxidize.
     
  10. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Soooooo. I took another crack at it. Turns out grinding off the surface layer with a wheel rather than using a wire brush more or less solved the issue.

    I can get fusion of rod and base metal now. And the arc is a bit more stable. So I think that was most of the issue.

    The part I'm fixing was cast aluminum. It's a rooster for the tip of a barn. Like a wind spinny thing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  11. Jason

    Jason Gold

    There ya go. I didn't know your were running a wire brush. I never use them. Flap discs and sand paper discs only. Remember, keep anything that has touched carbon steel FAR AWAY from aluminium. While trolling the tube tonight, I found an awesome channel with shit loads of good tig tips. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBJMRpwftLg_QzPvIeZg41g/videos
    Yeah I know they are pipe weenies, but tig basics are basics.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  12. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Yeah, the brush is my usual steel brush.

    Didn't realize. Aluminum is a bit finicky it seems. Either way its repairing up nicely. I'll be done tomorrow and will sand blast it when done.

    Grinding off the previous attempt at repairing it with home depot aluminum rods and oxy acetylene sucks. I think that rod had zinc in it because there are some clouds of crap coming off it whenever it hits the arc.

    Definitely getting really good fusion once cleaned and welded.

    Pics tomorrow.
     
  13. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Finished repairing it. Too bad I didn't take a before picture. I put red marks where the pieces were broken in half. Lot of welding to repair it. Ground it down and sand blasted it. I may polish up the bird or brass it.

    20190101_202754.jpg 20190101_202831.jpg
     
  14. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    @Zapins
    If I were you, I'd ram that sucker up and cast myself a copy ;)
     
    Mark's castings likes this.
  15. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Haha yeah. Too bad I have only used sand casting twice when I first started 8 years ago.

    I see a lot of the ones online were braised. So maybe I'll do that and return it like that. I might even put his name in the metal. Would be a cool touch
     
  16. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    That is a pretty nice looking weather vane. Nice repair job. Why was it so badly broken?

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  17. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Very nicely done, Zapins! First class job on an item that was a difficult repair.

    As you found, aluminum is very finicky. I "get away with murder" tigging steel. Totally different ball game with Al. Everything has to be clean, amps have to be right, filler rod correct, no dipping the tip without regrinding, etc, etc, etc.

    Denis
     
  18. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Yeah thanks. It wasn't too bad once I had it all cleaned with a grinder. Seemed to work best when I pulsed it and fed in small spurts. Seems similar to bronze in the way it welds, but a bit more finicky with the surface having to be clean.

    Not sure why it was so messed up. The guy who wanted it repaired found it at a flea market for a couple bucks. I think it must have fallen off the top of a barn or something and cracked?

    Seems the original vane was brassed.

    Maybe I'll do that, heat it up with a torch and wire brush it until it is shiney and brassed. What do you think?

    Also the weight is a bit off. It isn't perfectly balanced. Not sure how it will rotate. Maybe its supposed to be on a bearing? Meh I guess not my problem lol.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Was looking for this the other day....

     
  20. Robert

    Robert Silver

    That looks great!
    I just got some of the new Purple Tungsten for Christmas. Supposed to be great multipurpose tungsten. You might want to check them out. I'll let you know how they work for me. Going to do some aluminum this week.
    Robert
     
    dennis likes this.

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