Wax piston sprue extruder?

Discussion in 'Lost wax casting' started by Zapins, May 21, 2018.

  1. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    So assuming this is the inside of the cylinder looks like the picture below it seems like if we modified the left side of the cylinder with those B7 studs you mentioned then we could cut a window somewhere on the right side of the cylinder to load wax and then hook up an electric jack to the shaft inside and be done with the project?

    [​IMG]

    For different sized dies we'd need to bolt a plate onto the face of the left side of the picture.

    Liquid wax wouldn't work well for extrusion, I've tried it with a syringe and it doesn't work. It has to be warm/gooey to come out in a usable form. I usually extrude thin stringers by hand using a large steel syringe so the pressure probably doesn't make a big difference. I don't have a good sense of how much force 477 psi is in real life terms but I doubt my hands can exert that much force on a syringe. If we needed to keep the cylinder and wax warm then we could always slap on some of those ring heaters that jason posted earlier. They'd certainly keep the wax at the right temperature.

    How wide/long are the cylinders you have anyway? How much are you looking to get for them? You're a 13 hr drive from me so they might need to be shipped since I can't see myself having the time to drive 2 days to get them.
     
  2. On the cylinder you pictured you have nuts on each end. Those nuts are on tie rods (four) which hold the cylinder together. You could plug the opening, cut the ears off, and make a new opening in the end to extrude the wax through. But I also think you could extrude the wax through the side opening. It will turn the corner just fine. Then all you need to do is drill holes in 1/2" pipe plugs to make different size openings.

    I was not inferring liquid wax for extruding, just for getting it into the cylinder. Then you let it cool to the ideal extrudable temperature, soft but firm enough to hold it's shape.

    I have some pictures below but had another idea. I don't know how long you need your extruded pieces, but I was thinking you could do a test by making a 1" pipe reservoir stood vertically. Put a reducer in the bottom with a drilled plug to match the extrusion size you want. Then fill it with liquid wax (to seal) and let it cool. Then put on a cap and put air pressure on it. It will extrude until the air works it's way through the center. You could refill it with liquid and start over. Pretty cheap, pretty quick, and you'll get an idea how it extrudes before doing a lot of work. You could also put a loose plug in it to keep the air from boring a hole down the middle of the wax. You might have trouble fishing the plug back out, maybe run a rod in teh bottom hole or warm it up, pour everything out, and start over. I really think pouring in liquid wax and letting it solidify may work.

    This cylinder is an ancient IH, probably 3-1/2" and 8" stroke.

    IMG_3822.JPG

    It's a tie rod cylinder like in your drawing. It would be free.

    This is an antique IH 1-1/2" single acting cylinder (large piston and no seal) which might work. I'd have to have $40 for it. Notice it has three tie rods.

    IMG_3823.JPG

    This old Sherman backhoe attachment was saved for the cylinders. They'd make a giant log splitter. I stored it in about 1989 and have not yet needed any of the cylinders. You might need one. Two on the dipper (one up top and one under that one you can't see), one on the boom (to the left in the grass) and one on the bucket (foreground). They are all about four feet long and have been retracted and should be OK inside. For what you want rust on the rod and a bad seal is not at issue. Two of these in tandem would make an industrial sized wax extruder, one driving the other with hydraulice.

    IMG_3824.JPG

    Then there are two shorter outrigger cylinders

    IMG_3826.JPG

    Should I have cut this up when scrap was high? It's a drop in the bucket though, I've got tons and tons of scrap.

    While I'm happy to ship you a cylinder, if you decide you really want to go this route, you may find one locally, especially at a farm sale. Every farm has cylinders laying around and they og cheap at sales because the seals are probably bad. 13 hours from Tulsa there have to be farms nearby.:rolleyes:

    By the way, my first job was in Knoxville, for TVA, in 1971.
     
  3. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Roughly how wide is the cylinder in the 2nd photo? 4 feet is long but might be workable. Lots of local farms near me but I'm unsure how to approach them without getting shot or eaten by their dog haha.

    The one in the last photo looks about a foot or so long and maybe 3-4 inches wide?
     
  4. 3rd photo? That's where the 4 ft ones are. They're 3" or 4". I think the past photo is 4" and 18" long. I'll measure them tomorrow.

    A farm sale is an auction, usually held when someone has died or declared bankruptcy. If you haven't been to a farm sale you should check for sales near you and go to one. They're fun and usually some bargains.

    You can also look for someone who works on farm equipment. They may have a deal for you.
     
  5. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Andy, I smell what you're selling. A threaded rod could be welded to the back side of the piston. On the back end of the tube a plate with matching nuts on the inside/outside of the cylinder. Hand crank stuck on the threaded rod and a replaceable die holder on the front. Very little machining needed this way. The die holder is about all I see needing professional work.

    Hey zap, lots of times the seals in these are made of metal or some kind of phonelic. Believe me, this thing doesn't have to be super tight. Look at that POS extruder I've been using. When the wax is soft, it's going out the front.
     
  6. I think it's worth trying air pressure and warm wax. I would do that if I had any wax other than my home brew toilet ring wax.
     
  7. joe yard

    joe yard Silver

    What about a modified lard press? You could put the heating unit and new cylinder in the cast iron bucket.
    Joe
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Peedee

    Peedee Silver

    Motorcycle fork stantion?
     
  9. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Where can I find one of these?
     
  10. joe yard

    joe yard Silver

    Antique stores and the like. A good yard sale price around here would be $35 -$50. At an antique store I don’t know. They are built very heavily. If you were a bit closer and the wife was not looking...

    They have them on ebay but they are over priced compared to what might be found at the flee markets. Here is a listing of the gear and screw asmbly for $ 50 after delivery.

    .ebay.com/itm/ENTERPRISE-4-QT-ARCH-GEARS-SCREW-SAUSAGE-STUFFER-LARD-FRUIT-WINE-CIDER-PRESS/192574205206?hash=item2cd6512d16:g:7WAAAOSwzzVbDZt9

    Another unit with the bucket that would reacquire a lot less work to convert to your project. $150 delivered

    .ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-DUCK-PRESS-NO-25-4-QT-ENTERPRISE-SAUSAGE-STUFFER-FRUIT-LARD-WINE-CIDER/332698550277?hash=item4d76610005:g:F18AAOSwDn5bMNVE


    Joe
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
  11. Not as long as I thought. The end one is 3-1/2", looks like a 26" stroke. The pair are 3" over 30" stroke, the larger single is 4", 36" stroke and the outrigger is 4", 16" stroke.
     
  12. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Little confused on which one is which tell me if I have it correct

    Are there 4 cylinders on this piece? Which sizes are shown in this photo?
    [​IMG]


    All 3 of these sound like they would work for this project, but probably the shorter wider one is better for space saving:
    - 3 & 1/2" wide and 26 long sounds perfect
    - 3 and 30" long.
    - 4 and 36" long

    Any idea what it would cost to buy and ship them to Morristown TN? Probably shipping would be a killer.
     
  13. At the far end of the picture you see three yellow parts. Left is the boom, middle is the boom cylinder (4" x 32" stroke), right is one of the dipper cylinders (2-3/4" x 48" stroke). There are a pair, one on each side. One is buried in the grass. The near one is the bucket cylinder (3" x 24" stroke).

    The cylinders collapsed are about a foot longer than the stroke, and open will be longer by the stroke. So the bucket cylinder is about 36" long collapsed and 60" long extended.

    Shipping will be the killer. I'll give you a cylinder. I would also make you some dies if you want something odd like a cylinder or a rectangle.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
  14. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Im thinking arbor press.......
     
  15. joe yard

    joe yard Silver

    Hi guys

    I puled the lard press down and made a short video thinking that it might be the berries for a sprue extruder.

    I had hope the video would have been a better expiation than I could give. Unfortunately I am Unable to get it to post so I will do the best I can at explaining
    The handle length pivot to pivot is 8 inches. It require turning the handle 4 turns to move the ram 1 inch.
    The capacity is approx. 2 gallons with the bore being 8 inches wide by 8 inches deep.
    The lead screw diameter is 1.1 inch and is made of steel. With the exception of this lead screw and the 2 threaded rods on the sides all other parts are cast iron.
    It weighs 41 Lb and a person would have to try very hard to damage it during use. The weak link would most likely be the handle itself. I would not push it to destruction but without the risk of damage several thousand pounds of force could be obtained at the screw end.
    It has a clip that allow the top to swing to the side exposing the bore. I would think the only modification needed would be a bore liner and piston, along with die.
    If a person was willing to give up some inside diameter. This would make a nice cavity to place electric heaters and a thermocouple / controller to preheat the wax.
    I am not sure as to what kind of molding I eventually be using but lost wax is right up there on the list of potentials. I had originally hoped to melt a bit of metal by the 4th of July but that did not happen. The furnace will be completed soon and that should be a good start to a working foundry. The new goal is a completely functional foundry by Christmas.

    Joe
     
  16. Jason

    Jason Gold

  17. joe yard

    joe yard Silver

    The one I had posted was one of 2 we had forever. My brother-in-law talked me out of the smaller one. It was probably a 1 gallon. After seeing this thread and remembering it. I decided to look closer at it. Other than the fact it would be hand cranked. I could not imagine anything being better designed for this application. I don’t have any way to know what the viscosity of the wax you guys use is but it would extrude rather stiff pottery clay with no problem.
    Joe
     
  18. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Upload to YouTube and copy paste the link. I wanna see the video! Sounds promising for sure.
     
  19. joe yard

    joe yard Silver

    Ok Zapins
    Try not to laugh to hard . I have never made a you tube any thing. I am modernizing slowly, steaming right into the 20th century. I will have to work on my presentation style in the future.
    Joe
     
  20. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Gold Banner Member

    Hmmm. "Video is not available"... Maybe it's just me?

    Jeff
     

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