Plaster Mold Questions

Discussion in 'Lost wax casting' started by Sirgei, Jun 2, 2020.

  1. Sirgei

    Sirgei Copper

    Noise cannon is illegal in UK
    As far as I known

    I read in a paper like 3-4 years ago someone glued whistles to a wheel with blades. Like propeller and put it in his garden. Every time wind turn it it whistles.
    He was prosecuted and fined very heavily. Under Bird Protection Act and Cruelty To Animals.
     
  2. rocco

    rocco Silver

    I'm quite sure noise making devices are prohibited in urban areas here too but my area is zoned for agriculture. There are a lot of vineyards around my house and in the fall before the grape harvest, they make extensive use noise cannons, it sometimes sounds like an artillery duel, it grew up with it so I barely notice but when visitors come they can find it quite jarring. BTW, when the cannon are operating, I see a lot fewer birds in my garden.
     
  3. Peedee

    Peedee Silver

    Your wax melt pot looks good to me. Just take your time, slow heat

    Netting is a good solution for fruit trees, you can get 'fire cracker' strings from the likes of Ernest Doe but you won't be popular!!!
     
  4. Sirgei

    Sirgei Copper

    Update:

    Pot had smelted everything that I put in it and kept it liquid.

    IMG_0945.JPG

    However, the problem happened in another area.

    I used ordinary A4 sheets to test it in dipping.

    While A4 sheet had almost completely waxed after dipping and cooling IMG_0946.JPG :

    After I made a tube from the same sheet and was dipping it the layers would NOT build up.
    I was dipping the sane way I did in Belarus when I was 15.
    But this would not build the layers.
    Each time it was dipped for 5-10 seconds then moved out of the pot - all of the wax just dripped off and nothing stayed pn the surface.

    I tried sand paper, but it was exactly same result.
    IMG_0949.JPG


    This is really bad. I have planned to build up layers around a paper base until it reaches 3mm thickness
    Then fill up with my mix and after it sets, melt it using hair drier.
    The same I already done in Belarus.
    What is wrong with English paper?
    If this don't work I have 3 more ways left.
    After that this project is a goner.

    All those other ways That I mentioned I have already done back home in Belarus.
    Back then all worked out excellent.
    I am really puzzled why paper after being waxed would not build up layers.
    I made home made candles this way before.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. rocco

    rocco Silver

    A lot of paper is coated, have you tried newsprint? To best of my knowledge, it's usually uncoated.
     
  6. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    Try reducing the wax temp and/or dipping more rapidly. If your dipped sheet gets back up to melting temperature then it wont take on anymore wax.
     
  7. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Heat on full. Dip once. Shut pot off. Wait 2mins, dip again. wait 2mins.. dip again.
    All you are doing is melting off the previous layers.o_O:rolleyes:
     
  8. Sirgei

    Sirgei Copper

    I get base paper for wallpapering. May be that is uncoated.
    Shut pot off-Which pot? The one with hot water?
    When it shuts off it doesn't cool straight away.
     
  9. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Just get the wax pot out of the hot water and start dipping. As the pot of wax cools, each subsequent layer you dip will be cooler than the last one and won't remove what you just layered on.
     
  10. Sirgei

    Sirgei Copper

    UPDATE

    Today I have tried thyat Automatic smelting furnace I got from ebay. That furnace costed £275. I specifically was buying one that said 3kg crusible ca[acity.
    On the ebay selling page, it was said that it reaches full temperature over 30 minutes. Max 45 mins.
    I didn't recorded time, but it looked like it was more then 1h. Then to smelt 20mm wide pieces of pipe took like 10 min per pipe.

    Photos I made to show here.

    This is total amount of copper scrap that I had:
    IMG_0951.JPG

    And the weight:

    IMG_0950.JPG

    After almost 1h this is how it looked:

    IMG_0955.JPG

    I poured it into a mold made with casting sand. It had made hissing noise as it touched sand as it is slightly wetted.
    This is how it looked straight after pouring:

    IMG_0958.JPG

    After it cooled halve way or so, I poured cold water on it so it fully cools. Then I cleaned and weighted.

    IMG_0959.JPG

    And weight:

    IMG_0960.JPG

    918 gram. Judging from how full crucible was after pouring it, it was about 2/3 full - my guess is that it would accommodate no more then 1kg of copper per time.

    This is the item I bought:
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1KG-2KG-...var=503134075039&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

    It says so on the page about halve way down that it smelts 3.5KG of gold, 3kg of copper and so on.

    I already honestly admitted that I never smelted Copper so may be I don't understand something here.
    If It says it can melt 3kg of copper, but can only put 1kg into it - where did I go wrong?

    Please, have a look and tell me if I am missing something here or not.

    I have 4 pipes left. I will do tes of pouring them into my mix mold next week.
     
  11. Jason

    Jason Gold

    FFS man.. You smelt rocks and melt metal. What you have is pretty typical. Copper is shit on it's own. Lots of dross! I'd tell you to try melting it under a layer of broken glass, but you hardly have the heat to melt what you've got from the looks of things. In short, the seller probably grossly exaggerated that things capability. For that kind of money, you could have built a furnace nicer than what I have. As the metal melts, you have to keep adding to the melt. The capacity is only what the crucible should hold in molten metal. I am not surprised if it's wrong by a country mile.
     
  12. Sirgei

    Sirgei Copper

    Sorry. I keep mistaking that word for another.
    Graphite crucible's instruction says it is only formulated for Gold, Silver, Copper, Aluminum, Zinc, Tin, Lead
    From broken glass it might break. And here isn't any room to add glass.

    I haven't seen what your crucible looks like, so can't say what it would cost.
    I wanted coal-fired one self-build from start, but with noise and smell and smog wouldn't go any where with the kind of neighbors I got.

    What would you say?
    Should I keep it as it is or try to have to have it replaced to one with higher capacity?

    Still reading that book. Slowly.
     
  13. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Ugghh.. I'm out. Someone please help our boy here. I cant do this anymore.
     
    Rotarysmp and JCSalomon like this.
  14. Sirgei

    Sirgei Copper

    What did I say?

    I asked you what would you think I should do.
    Nothing offencive
     
  15. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Ya didnt say any thing sirgei.. Keep reading your book. ;)
     
  16. JCSalomon

    JCSalomon Copper

    Sirgei, despite everyone here recognizing that your intended “research” is pure twaddle and flumadiddle, lots of people still offered their help.
    You said you needed a particular shape made of copper. People with casting experienced explained that your desired shape would be difficult to cast, and doubly so in copper; you rejected that. People suggested having the part machined—I’m certain there are hobbyist machinists near enough that you could hire someone’s time, but you seem to have looked only at industrial machine shops, who are not interested in tiny jobs.

    Well, you want to cast it. People still offered their advice: what sort of furnace would be within your means; what techniques you ought to practice so that you might eventually achieve the shape you want. Instead, you spent a ridiculous amount of money on a tool wholly unsuited for your use. If you have not the mathematical ability to evaluate the specs for a melting furnace to see whether it would accomplish what you want, it is unlikely that you will be able to determine how much energy you’ll be putting into your research device or how much you get out of it.

    At this point, you seem to have exhausted the patience of everyone here who might have been inclined to help. Nobody has the time or the crayons to explain anything to you anymore.
    At this point, your best bet is to try standing on your head, flapping your wings, kicking your legs, and spitting fire.
     
    Rotarysmp likes this.
  17. Sirgei

    Sirgei Copper

    I came here as my almost last resort. Everything that was so kindly suggested to me here I have already tried and exhausted.

    Last year, I have spent 2 month on various routes. Which I have honestly said up-front.
    I don't bother without a good reason. Coming here to ask those questions was almost last resort before giving up everything.

    You think I ignored everything that was said? I don't ever ignore anything. But how would the same think work out if this already failed lat year?

    I have been almost always polite here. Once, yes I agree it slipped a little and may be sounded rude. Stress of this all.
    Some guy back here started mocking everything. I ignored only his ''penis'' and other mockery.
    Here are no hobby machinists any where near my area. Thankfully, my friend in Russia had found a supplier that might have pipes of the needed size so the project won't die here.

    I live in suburban area with neighbors ho got noses longer then a stoke. Slightest noise, smell or anything out of their ordinary they peek over fence, bang on door scream ''i am calling police''
    I would soo much love to have a nice furnace like one that was shown a few pages back.
    Fire it up using coal and air blower. Without anything that won't break down. But I had no choice, but to get Chinese junk off ebay.
    Not that I wanted to get it - it was the only choice. Except give up and go find something else to dream about.

    Everything that I got on the pages here I carefully files up and stored. So, no I didn't ignore anything.
    And that book Jason gave is so brilliant.
    I love it.
    Got any more such perhaps?
    I will still post here from time to time as I said I would at start of conversation.
    It is fully up-to you-nice people of this forum-to comment on the posts or not.

    Good Time of the Day in your time zone :)
    Sirgei
     
  18. Sirgei

    Sirgei Copper

    And yes yes I know what everyone have said it would be difficult, almost impossible.
    But trying is also worth it don't you think so?
    I give it my best shot. If it fails - so it fails.
    But even in trying I get some experience.
    Thank You Again
     
  19. dtsh

    dtsh Silver

    Please try to understand this comment as constructive criticism, it is intended to help you, not to single you out for harasment or ridicule...

    I can't speak for others, but I will say what I have perceived. Many, myself included, suggested that you contact machinists, preferably hobby machinists, to see if you could get what you need made locally. I believe I linked to hobby-machinist.com more than once, did you go there and make a post in the services wanted section with details about the dimensions of the part you need?

    Instead of taking any of the comments about finding a machinist to heart, you told us all that there aren't any in the UK, something which I know is not true as I interact with a few on a semi-regular basis. I'm not one to criticise wanting to do it yourself the hard way. So when you wanted it cast and people started offering advice you promptly told people that something they have done and you had not was way too expensive and instead went out and spent several times that ammount on something inappropriate for the task. If you had asked any of us what we thought of that tool we would have unanimously told you NOT TO BUY IT and to do what we had suggested and build your own for a fraction of the cost.

    You have a tendency to ask for advice and then promptly ignore what's offered and tell people that what they themselves have done, cannot in fact be done. You seem to be better at manufacturing obstacles than solutions, or at least that's what your posts suggest to me.

    My best advice to you is to return that furnace and ask the community here for recommendations on what build threads to read, which ones seem to have the best designs for your criteria, and if they have any leads on where you might get the materials in your area. Then work on digesting that info and open a discussion on which materials might be best and how to source them locally.

    This group is amazingly helpful and will be one of the best assets you have, but you have to change your attitude and approach. The frustration you felt when someone else dismissed your understanding of your project is very much like what I felt when you disregarded my and other helpful advice. Stop and think, be aware of the things you know because you have done them and have direct experience, the things you think you know because you've studied them to some extent, and the things you are ignorant of; it will help you tremendously.

    Lastly, instead of making statements such as "You can't get scrap copper here" try to reword those into questions such as "Do you know where I might find raw copper around (city) for a reasonable price?" The statement of it not being possible isn't helpful or accurate and it makes you come across as not being serious and the second example of turning into a question makes it easier for others to help you do what you are trying to do.


    I would advise you to give up on trying to figure it out on your own. Ask people for advice and most importantly, listen to it! For the cost of the furnace you bought you could have built one and had a lot of money left over. It's sometimes hard to accept that we're ignorant and that we don't know what we're doing in certain areas, but it's OK; we're all ignorant in many areas.

    You have though, you keep throwing up roadblocks to your progress. I tell you, that if you can humble yourself and accept that these people will help you if you would ask them for their help they will offer it. Even after all this people are still trying to help you.

    One can be polite and still unwillling to listen. It's not about being polite, it's about not wasting people's time. You seem to want to show us what you're doing, but you don't know what to do, so it's not working out. Stop! You have your cart before your horse!

    For someone who says he doesn't know many people in his area and doesn't socialize, how do you know there are none? Have you gone door to door? Not that I am suggesting you should, but this is a prime example of the self-defeating attitude; there ARE machinists in your area, you are just ignorant of them!

    Stop buying pipes! It's wasteful and expensive.

    More excuses. I know of more than a couple of people who seem to manage what you find impossible, how is it others can do it but you can't?

    You had many choices, but eBay is the one you went with, I am not sure why. If I were to guess, because it looked easier to you than following the advice given.

    If you truly believe that then there's probobly not much chance of helping you.


    Again, please try to take these as comments said by a friend for your benefit. I am not trying to belittle you, but to help.
    This group is an amazingly helpful bunch of people, some of the finest I've seen on the internet willing to share knowledge they have gained the hard way so that you don't have to, but you have to be willing to listen and to accept that maybe they know something that you do not and be willing to listen and not throw up your hands and quit at the first delay.
     
  20. Peedee

    Peedee Silver

    I made the infantile joke (which was poor taste and I apologise the whole forum for it) it was born out of frustration, sometimes the only way you can get people to listen is to run around the room naked shouting 'fire!'

    I suggested you check your tenancy contract, if the council boot you out for dangerous activities you don't get a second chance.
    I offered to weigh up what copper I have here and you blindly ignored me (I would have given it away to the right peson)
    In fact you have ignored or argued with every sensible suggestion I have made, not to mention everybody else who has tried to help.
     

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