Ornamental gate bases - Zapins

Discussion in 'General foundry chat' started by Zapins, Mar 25, 2023.

  1. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    I'd like to make some ornamental gates around my garden. I'd like to have some decorative shapes/bases on the bars but I'm going to need a lot of them probably a couple hundred. I'm wondering if casting would be the best way to do it or if it would be better to just press them with my 20 ton press into a mold? Or is there some other way to mass produce them in a reasonable amount of time?

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  2. Tops

    Tops Silver Banner Member

    Sounds like a neat project Zapins!
    What metal(s) are you thinking of for main pieces and for the ornaments?
    Have you done mold work in a press like you described?
     
  3. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    I want to do something like this for the gates. And then a simplified version for the fencing. Maybe 2.5 ft tall gates to keep the dogs out.

    Never done anything like this before. Was thinking maybe of using the forge I recently made to heat up steel blanks then press them into a mold with my 20 ton press but I'm not sure if that would work or not? I'm thinking if I used a big 2 to 3 inch thick steel plate and mill in the pattern then press the metal. Maybe after I could drill holes through and slide the steel bars in?
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    Tops likes this.
  4. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    How do blacksmiths make those little square thingys and what are they called? I ask as they often produce shapes with a minimum of effort using only pretty basic equipment.

    Denis
     
  5. Tops

    Tops Silver Banner Member

    That is a nice looking gate. Are you going for a more organized look or whimsical or? I am a fan of twists in the middle of the vertical bars and when they draw out the ends into thin tapers before curling them into those sprout- or flame-looking things. Went looking for my Alex Bealer book on blacksmithing, I think I sent it along with the kid when I dropped off the forge and anvil. I have never done any sort or power hammer or press forging.
     
  6. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    All of the ornamental finials and and other ornamentls like that on my ornamental iron stuff are cast iron and held in place with set screws. After a little experimenting to get the core sizing correct, make a master pattern, pull a silicone mold of the master, then use it to make a multicavity match plate with however many will fit. I'd think 10-on should be no problem. Might want to use a little mold wash on the cores to keep the sizing and finish of the interior suitable. You could probably just tack them in place on the underside of the wrought/steel with nickel alloy rod.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  7. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Casting them makes a lot of sense. Part the square ones on the corners===natural draft and easy fettling. I think I would use epoxy cores for this as the cores are very small and epoxy cores essentially pour out after casting iron. 5% by weight of epoxy should work well. If casting iron is a problem, then cast aluminum would suffice. Once well-painted, they will look fine. Cast a bunch at once as Kelly suggests. Pair them up like branches on a tree from a central runner and incline the mold with the distal runner end up so that the cavities fill in order bottom-up and not at random.

    Denis
     
  8. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    What epoxy do you use? Do you put it into the ceramic shell mold or are you talking sand casting core?

    I think the Nickel rod tac is a good idea. I can't imagine doing 200 set screws by hand without a power tap lol.

    Tops - I think I'll do a fairly organized look for most of the fencing but then more whimsical for the gates. The twisting idea is nice. I wonder if I could find a way to easily do it wish some speed. Maybe do every second bar like this so it doesn't kill me.
     
  9. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    I use West System 1:5 epoxy, though I think virtually any would work I’d just use wood core boxes for cores and green sand for the mold. That is all that is needed. Na silicate for the general mold would also be great as would epoxy. But epoxy for large numbers of primary molds would be speedy. Cores not so much.

    Denis
     
  10. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    BTW, power tap with your cordless drill. Drill the holes a few thou oversized. By a first class tap. Easy squeezy.

    Denis
     
  11. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Wait what now? You can power tap with a hand drill?? With what tapping attachment?
     
  12. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Umm, a well-cinched Chuck—-mine is keyless. Works fine. Over 1/4-20 is tough, but 10-24 is easy.

    Denis.
     
  13. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    You just put a regular tap in a hand drill and drill it in? Doesn't it snap off?
     

  14. Skip to 6:25 for some small hydraulic brass forging.
     
  15. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    You need to use a machining (not hand) tap. So chose a spiral point HSS brand name tap. Cast iron threads and drills easily. Spiral point taps push the chip ahead of the tap cutting face. It will cut a nice clean shiny thread as deeply as the the tap is long without any reversing. And, in cast iron, no cutting fluid is needed. Don't EVER (ever) use carbon steel taps unless you intend to snap it off! ;-) OSG is a good brand reasonably priced. (Emuge is better)

    https://www.zoro.com/osg-spiral-point-tap-10-24-plug-unc-3-flutes-oxide-2813401/i/G1595632/

    If you buy two, you won't break one. If you buy one, you'll be at greater risk! Try not to thread into blind holes. For these pieces, you will be threading into nice open through holes.

    Denis
     
  16. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Gotcha thanks! Good to know. I don't enjoy tapping so I may switch to spiral bits. Do they work in mild steel too?
     
  17. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Absolutely. You will love em. Aluminum, steel,iron. I use cutting oil in steel and WD-40 in aluminum. I almost never use a hand tap. In blind holes I hand tap using spiral point taps. Another option nice to have are forming taps rather than cutting taps. Caution: consult a table specific for form taps to determine hole size which is different than cutting tap hole sizes. I digress…

    Denis
     
  18. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Ooof thats nice! I'm gonna have a look for some spiral bits.

    I got many nice old stock taps from flea markets so thats what I've been using so far.
     

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