Building a new tilting furnace and getting back up and runnning after heart surgery

Discussion in 'Furnaces and their construction' started by master53yoda, Apr 16, 2020.

  1. master53yoda

    master53yoda Silver

    I've been out of operation due to a heart attack and aortic heat valve surgery, I am in the process of getting set back up, I'm building a new tilting furnace based on a 200 gallon oil tank, it has 2 wast oil burners that should produce about 600 to 750,000 BTUs It is large enough enough to melt complete car engines, my old furnace was designed around melting cylinder heads, it's capacity was about 80 to 90 lbs per hour. This new one should be able to do 200 to 250 per hour, I am using siphon nozzles and waste oil with propane as a pilot and a pressurized 20 gallon tank . the burners will be modulated based on furnace temperature using servo motors on the oil valves.
    I market ingots to the casting needs of the small foundry or Hobbyist. In the 4 years prior to my heart attack i processed 23,000 lbs of aluminum. I have initial orders of 800 lbs. Once I have them met I will reopen the EBay store.

    I will probably have the furnace up and running this week. I'll start a posting pictures etc. once I'm up and running

    Art b
     
    dennis likes this.
  2. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Hi Art, glad to hear your ok and getting back up and running. Looking forward to seeing some pictures :):)
     
  3. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    We've been thinking of ya Art and happy to hear you're recovering well and getting back to melting metal. We'll look forward to seeing your progress on that larger furnace.......should be a beast.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  4. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    I'm very happy to hear from you Art. I was a little concerned honestly. So you've decided to up your game. I know that you utilize a second furnace for flux/degas operations. Are you going to continue that operation as well with a larger crucible furnace or is the one you have adequate? I'll be interested to see the design of your new tilting furnace. It sounds like it will be thirsty. I use a 50 gallon gas hot water tank for my oil. It's a fairly late model I got from a plumber friend. It was nice and clean with a defective controller so the tank is sound and just needed to be rinsed. I didn't have to peel the skin or anything. There are just enough threaded holes to accommodate my needs without any fabricating at all including site tube and pressure relief valve. I essentially just apply air into the hot side and push the oil up the dip tube and out the cold side through a spin-on automotive filter and then on to the furnace. It's probably far larger than I need and it wouldn't have been my first pick, but it's stationary and a smaller one would have taken up just as much floor space, so no harm done. It even has a built in drain so I can tap off settled water. It just seems like you'll be goofing around a lot filling your smaller tank. Just a thought.
    I'm looking forward to pictures!

    Pete
     
  5. master53yoda

    master53yoda Silver

    the tank is the kind that is used to drain oil in the repair shops, it is on wheels and my oil source is coming in 55 gallon drums I use the air system for the burners and feed a regulator on the tank, the siphon air feed is about 10 psi to the adjustable flow valve on the burners and the regulator on the tank is set for about 2 PSI, just enough to get the oil through the spin on filter and to the oil valves that are controlled by the servo motors. The servo valves are about 4 to 6 ft from the burners , I found when I fired the crucible furnace that any more then a couple lbs of air makes it hard to get control with the servo valves. I'll shoot some pics to day and get them up.

    I also rebuilt the crucible furnace based on a small compressor tank it is also controlled by the servo motors. As the ingots molds are the same I use the same size crucibles based on the fire extinguishers, part of the reason for using the fire extinguishers is that their isn't a lag in heating the crucible back up and they only add a couple lbs to the weight of the aluminum, also when they fail it is a pin hole rather then the possibility of a catastrophic failure. they are also faster to handle. pics will show some of this.

    Art b
     
  6. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Glad to hear you're ok!

    I love it, go big or go home! Looking forward to seeing it come together.

    Jeff
     
  7. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Hell of a good way to get back up on the horse Art! I was wondering where you went. Can't wait to see the new build! Welcome back buddy!
     
  8. OMM

    OMM Silver

    I'm very interested in your design & pictures. I just picked up a 60 gallon hot water tank that I'm thinking of repurposing as a tilting aluminum scrapping furnace.

    It is good to hear of your recovery. Happy melting!
     
  9. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Here's Yoda's YouTube channel if you haven't seen his previous tilting furnace.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOn4Bp7FC-n5yHvsXfd_yZg

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  10. Zapins

    Zapins Gold

    Glad you're doing better Art. I want to see photos of this monster furnace. That's huge capacity you're making.
     
  11. Hi Art, that's about as close a call as anyone can have and still tell the tale, I'm glad you're on the mend after such an event.
     
  12. master53yoda

    master53yoda Silver

    I'm having a problem that I could use some suggestions on a resolution to. On my smaller furnace i struggled with the refractory not standing up to well to the rough handling it would get from putting pieces into the furnace with engine block size pieces weigh 150 lbs, my old stand by of "Ceramic slip-sodium silicate and sand with refractory needles" isn't holding up and it is breaking at almost every use. I have tried mizzou but it didn't seem to work where it had to be troweled instead compacted, any suggestions I'll send a pic tomorrow.

    Art B
     
  13. OMM

    OMM Silver

    do you have any pictures of what you got going on?
     
  14. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Matt have you seen the video of him with the tilting furnace pouring aluminum?

    Hey Art, Can you make some kind of removable wooden plug so you don't have to trowel on the mizzou?
     
  15. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    My tilter is built similar to yours only much smaller.(10 or 12 gallon?). I went with about an inch of castable so you may want to scale up thickness as needed. I built a square frame 1" thick about 16x16" inside dimensions, laid thick oversized plastic sheeting down and set the frame on it on my bench. I filled it with castable, rammed it and struck it off. I then removed the frame, lifted the slab by the edges of the plastic and laid it into my compressor body. It took several sections and I blended the edges of the sections together. I may have beveled the form edges so the sections would overlap, I don't remember. I just let the plastic sheeting burn out. I may have used somewhat smaller section sizes because I was working alone, again I don't remember, but it worked. I knew I was cheating a bit because castable wasn't really the right product for what I was doing. But my sections were reasonably thin and the stiff castable didn't really move once it was in place. There is a type of rammable refractory available - Blu-Ram by Vesuvius is what I use now - but I didn't have any at the time. It comes in a form more like plasticine- sort of - as opposed to the more fluid castable so it would be easier to lay into your tank without flowing. You could actually just ram it right into place since that's what it's made for.
    Again yours may need more thickness and section size so you may need a helper and perhaps use plastic tarp material to place it.
    I actually installed fiber insulation underneath the refractory so the process was a little more involved than what I wrote above, but that's the basic idea. If you're planning on insulating and want more information on how I did it let me know.

    Pete
     
  16. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Yoda,

    Most metal contact furnaces would have a brick or insulating castable lining with a hard face. Since you need to be able to support 150lb objects it definitely needs structure and strength yet still be insulating. I would say wool is out, and though you could use insulating fire brick with a hard/hot face applied on top, cutting and placing all that brick would be tedious and expensive. For better economics, and since you have used sand and sodium silicate previously, you might try using that as opposed to commercial insulating castable or IFB. If you mix it to a plastic consistency you could simply hand pack the insulating layer onto your furnace shell to suitable shape and thickness, then drill (or maybe cut with a sprue cutter while sand/SS is still green?) a lattice work of say 1" holes on a 4"x 4" or 6"x 6" grid and fill them with castable refractory to serve as high refractory/strength support structure for the hot face in the areas that need high strength to support the metal charge.

    For the hot face, as Petee suggests, a plastic refractory seems the most practical thing to use. There is nothing unique about plastic refractories other than how they are formulated for placement and most manufacturers will offer plastic versions with similar formulations to corresponding castables. You should check with your nearest supplier and preferably select one rated for molten metal (non-ferrous) contact. This is one of the areas I think you would be well served to invest the $ and use a professionally formulated commercial product. Plastics are made to be hand placed and just for situations where casting or gunning are impractical. Sure, it's more labor intensive to place but you can place exactly how much you want, where you want, and hand packing around openings and complex shapes is no problem. You can roll out smaller flat sheets with a rolling pin then cut fit and place to suit.

    I would think at least 1/2" thickness everywhere and more likely 1" in the areas with greatest abuse and need to support weight, thus minimizing the total thermal mass of the furnace. That is the other beauty of plastic, you can vary the thickness as desired. It is also very easy to patch and repair (with itself).

    For the lid I would think suspending wool with a surface stabilizer like colloidal silica or Satanite would suffice.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
    Tobho Mott likes this.
  17. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    It would be nice to find a coating to apply to the steel just as a barrier layer to keep the aluminum from attacking it, then insulate the outside of the furnace..
    Just me thinking outloud :D
     
  18. master53yoda

    master53yoda Silver


    • upload_2020-4-29_20-12-42.jpeg

      First fire of end burner on oil, the open lid is 24" by 30" that flame is about 25" long and is firing @ 75%

      upload_2020-4-29_20-13-6.jpeg

      What happens to the insulation after firing, it shrinks cracks and the falls off

      upload_2020-4-29_20-13-41.jpeg


      This is the control panel, the lower valves are oil ball valve that are driven
      by the servos either responding to t-couple signals or potentiometers.
      The upper valves are propane burner valves, the left items are a 30 amp 12 v supply for the lift actuators and a 12 to 5 v for the Arduino, relays and servos, what is not seen is the switch board with burner control switches this panel controls the fan actuators, and 3 multi fuel burners.

      I'm doing a melt tomorrow and will try to video the chaos of a fist run.

      Art B
     
  19. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Looks like an old CPU to me. Got a closer photo of the guts to that thing?
     
  20. master53yoda

    master53yoda Silver

    it runs on an Arduino mega2560 I'll take a closer pic tgomorrow
     

Share This Page