I finished reading John Campbell's book : Complete Casting Handbook

Discussion in 'Sand Casting' started by Dazz, May 22, 2022.

  1. Dazz

    Dazz Copper

    Hi
    It was a book that was hard to read and with many parts not relevant to the backyard foundry, but the bits in between made up for it. With my brain loaded with the gold nuggets of John's advice learned from his decades of theoretical and practical research, I now look down upon the many Youtube home foundry videos with the condescending smugness of someone who knows something but has done nothing. :)

    I found that the editing and indexing was a bit lacking in places, so I tagged the parts I wanted to refer back to.

    Much of John's advice, I have not seen applied by Youtube home foundrys. When I do eventually get to try my hand at actual metal casting, I plan to follow John's advice because I think it will provide a shortcut to success.

    If you are thinking about going beyond the 10 rules, then reading John's book is a step in the right direction.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Billy Elmore

    Billy Elmore Silver

    He has some very good ideas but some of them are impractical and for the most part every aspect of how we commonly melt, transfer and pour metal goes against what he teaches. LOL
     
    HT1 likes this.
  3. HT1

    HT1 Gold Banner Member


    Impractical , is probably the understatement of the century, I completely destroy most of his rules using the AFS gating system, and my success rate is near the 99th percentile ,. but if i was making aerospace parts, I would be in his back pocket

    Most of his teachings are impossible for the hobbiest or even a small foundry, because of the almost requirement of computer simulation to determine gating and pouring rates, the use of VERY expensive resin sand systems, I was never happy with anyone's ability to explain his system for a particular project, but all his disciples are quick to poo-poo anyone not following his teachings. in short half what he says is industry common knowledge, but extremely difficult to actually put into action, and other parts of it are bordering on hoodoo, people will tell you, you are wrong, but cannot tell you the correct answer.

    every time someone would pop in and say I'm doing it wrong, AFS doesn't work, I just ask then how to do it, thier answer is either to ghost , or give an answer so insanely impractical for a hobbyist, as to be stupid i.e insane head heights, filters, gating systems that can only be accomplished in a resin sand system , again no aerospace or Subsafe castings are coming through this board, Facebook , Instagram, or YouTube, take Mr Campbells Hoodoo back under a rock


    V/r HT1
     
    Billy Elmore likes this.
  4. Dazz

    Dazz Copper

    Hi
    I agree that much of Prof Campbells writing is aimed at industrial operations and may not scale down well to the backyard foundry. I can also see that there are features and techniques than can easily be incorporated into a small foundry process.

    I plan to use my 3D printer to make patterns. After reading the book, I also plan to 3D print the entire pouring, runner, gates and riser system.
    I don't have simulation tools which can only approximate reality, but it would not difficult to setup a test pour to measure actual flow rates and gate performance.

    [​IMG]

    I have no doubt that your experience allows you to hit the 99th percentile but your knowledge and experience is not accessible or transferable to me or anyone else. It seems your advice is to ignore Campbell, and do what?? How would I achieve the 99th percentile based on your advice??

    I took a quick look at the AFS website and found this image:
    upload_2022-6-3_9-9-47.png

    What I see here is reasonably consistent with Campbell so if I ignore Campbell and follow the AFS, it is likely I would end up with similar solutions. Just one of AFS e-learning modules is about the price of Campbell's book. Taking AFS e-learning courses are too expensive for the home foundry person. So if I ignore Campbell and can't afford AFS courses, where do I go to learn metal casting???
     
    Billy Elmore likes this.
  5. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Right here Dummy. :rolleyes::p
     
  6. mytwhyt

    mytwhyt Silver

    This is about the time I usually here someone say, "Shut up Fred". So, I'll pretend they did..
     
  7. Dazz

    Dazz Copper

    Great. Spare me a minute and tell me all you know!
     
  8. HT1

    HT1 Gold Banner Member

    well that is probably the silliest thing i have heard, i was trained by the US Navy all of their pertinent publications and training manuals are available online FREE

    go to this link and look for molder, there are two volumes 3&2,1&C , they even have open book tests in the rear of the book to help you study
    http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.ed...?key=United States. Bureau of Naval Personnel

    and yes there are newer volumes, but very little of the information changed, if you dig deep into the internet, all but the newest version from 1993 Patternmaker/molder are available . but the 93 version actually has less information, and still uses the same pictures

    additionally, one of the most cited foundry references the US Navy foundry Manuel AGAIN Its FREE!!!

    https://maritime.org/doc/foundry/index.htm

    Now I'm sorry I cannot give you 8 weeks of formal training I have had, at the PM /ML Journeyman school, your SOL, it closed in 96,

    But the 15 years of hands on training i have,,, well go start pounding sand you will get there, its called an apprenticeship, used to be the standard, and I assure you if you get stuck, come here with good pictures and intelligent questions you will get tons of great help!

    V/r HT1
     
  9. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Or, you could read, self-educate, and do topical searches in your areas of interest and priority.

    As HT1 points out, there are plenty of materials publicly available. I've read Campbell's book. I would say although he tends to stand a little closer to industry professionals than most acedemics he still suffers a bit as most acedemics do when it comes to making practical value for money decisions and understanding perfection can be the enemy of good enough.

    There is a tutorial here, and while it isn't anywhere near as involved as the Navy manual, it is more lay in nature and along with the forum, you might benefit from the other form of expertise which is the art of compromise........which can be very valuable for the hobbyist. There are a lot of things you wont learn by reading Campbell but will if you practice.

    Just remember, mankind was casting and doing quite well, long before modern society.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  10. Billy Elmore

    Billy Elmore Silver

    I have a few excel worksheets that utilize different types of gating schemes on my computer. Not sure if I can share them here, just as they are, but may be able to water them down enough to upload them here. If I get a chance I will look through them and see which ones are the best for this forum. I haven't searched but if there is not a thread on gating worksheets then I will start one. I created most these myself for myself so I will have to add some directions of sort. May be easier to start from scratch.LOL
     
    Tobho Mott likes this.
  11. Billy Elmore

    Billy Elmore Silver

    Update...excel worksheets do not upload into the forum. That complicates things a little bit. Not sure how I could convert these to anything that will still work on the calculations.
     
  12. Chazza

    Chazza Silver

    A HUGE thank you to HT1 for the link to the USN manual.

    I have been having lots of trouble casting a long, thin automotive part with several thick bosses in it. I think my gating system, which I took from Ammen's book, is contributing to the problem.

    Reading time for me,

    Cheers Charlie
     
  13. Dean

    Dean Copper

    His Mini Casting Handbook is just as difficult to read but at least it has a lot fewer pages (and 1/10th the price tag). This book does however condense down the essential elements of both Casting Practices: The Ten Rules and Complete Casting Handbook.

    I've summarized the essence of John Campbell's concepts for filling system design along with the math involved, complete with references, in the attached document.

    I've also been developing an OpenSCAD parametric model that produces filling system designs for 3D printing based on the math and mold characteristics. It's as much an academic exercise as a practical one because once you get down to the small scale, the parameters don't affect the model as greatly. I'll post it in a separate post shortly.
     

    Attached Files:

    Mark Kravchenko, Monty and Tops like this.
  14. Tops

    Tops Silver Banner Member

    Thanks for the 'Cliff Notes' version!
     
  15. Monty

    Monty Silver

    Speak for yourself! :p

    I just ordered this book... I have a feeling it's going to be "academic" and will be placed on the shelf with all the other engineering texts...full of good stuff...but lacking in practice.

    I do like casting filters.... but "professional" supplies are hard to get. It seems there aren't many suppliers that cater to the small guy. I've had to rely on getting lucky on fleabay. trying to find things like exothermic "hot topping" has been a waste of time. I just use a propane torch on the riser instead. Anybody have any suggestions?

    Monty
     
  16. I have that same copy of "Metals in the Service of Man" book He mentions in the video: it's a very good read about all kinds of metal manufacturing processes from chrome plating to aluminium alloys to how sewing needles were made. It's be a bit dated now but I understand there are later updated versions than my 1970's copy.
     
  17. Dean

    Dean Copper

    Latest is the eleventh edition published in 1998.
     
  18. So some advances like metal powder 3D printing would be missing in the 1998 edition whereas my copy describes processes like making needles that have gone the way of the dodo.
     
  19. Dean

    Dean Copper

    IMG_20220627_133531.jpg

    Arrived in the post today. Still talks about making needles (and nuclear reactors).
     
  20. Just got my copy of Metals in the Service of Man. Have the Campbell books. And agree that some of it is esoteric. But that is what this forum is for right? grow, expand and learn.
     

Share This Page