Lifting tongues and pouring rings.

Discussion in 'Foundry tools and flasks' started by OMM, Nov 3, 2019.

  1. OMM

    OMM Silver

    Thanks Kelly, I wait for your response.

    As well did, you radius and/or angle? To The mating surfaces crucible to tongues? My guess is 7.5° or inclusive 15°?
    24CB1DD7-E3E3-4B49-AF31-245D8D2D2F3A.jpeg

    this is a 10° angle slip, and it seems a little bit too aggressive.
    BFB2FA74-3E94-4D10-AC6E-9440D47DE36D.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
  2. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    The ring in the shank is a actually a cone shaped section. I chose the contact point similar to what you did in the picture, approximating the angle, then used an online cone calculator to cut the arced pieces. I think I read somewhere 35-40% of the height from the base of the crucible is recommended. But, if you offset the handle upward so the center of rotation is about the spout you won't have to move the crucible as you pour. In any case, I bent the conical raduiused ring by hand in an open jawed vice and tuned it a bit with a hammer on a similar OD pipe before I welded them to the backing rib using the crucible as the fixture. If I had to do again I think I'd just do a little blacksmithing and just use (maybe 1/2") round bar as the ring.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  3. OMM

    OMM Silver

    Again thanks Kelly.

    I have finalized my cut list.

    Mine should be so adjustable, it should pick up on the smallest A3 to the largest A16 (5 to 9.875ish crucible top) in my furnace without any modifications. (It might be tight, but maybe A20.) i’m trying to leave about 1.5” Per side, with many of the oil guys suggesting 2 inches per side (for lifting tool and burn). The handle will also be adjustable, so I can pour about centre. I am using the clamping adjustment with 3/4 acme thread(5 or 6TPI, I have 6 TPI in stock in MS). I wish I lived on your side of the border with McMaster Carr to pull from.
    My cut layout. (3/4 solid square stock with 1 x 1 x .125 wall box tubing.)
    B0861202-640D-4CBE-BC61-2B9B2889F9DD.jpeg

    Did you get a chance to measure how long your pouring handle is? (My safe guess is 36”.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  4. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    You're on the money....37" to the base of the ring. Can't say I put any thought into selection.....just what I grabbed from the stock pile.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  5. garyhlucas

    garyhlucas Silver

    Same here, I bought a 36" piece of threaded pipe so I could put an elbow on the outside end. Length seems right, I also thought I might want to add weight on the outboard end to counterbalance the crucible. Each pound on the outboard end would compensate about 3 lbs at the crucible end. Might be easier to handle a well balanced bar bell.
     
  6. OMM

    OMM Silver

    Drawing after drawing and scaling things up, the “two in one” adjustable lift and pour somewhat failed my expectations, until I have hit this design. It is going to be an F clamp style. I milled up a three-quarter acme nut added some 2 inch long half inch diameter bar to be a 3 handle wing-nut. I black oxide them as they are just mild steel. I tapped them 1/4-20 and added brass screws to the end (to add some fancy handles if I want to). This will become the drawbar. There is a 7/16–20 Grade 8 threaded stud holding the acme thread to the three-quarter stainless steel. It is a shoulder sleeve bore to keep things strong and parallel.
    8523B87A-880F-4D1E-8772-AED3D2613D9C.jpeg
    7BC65208-0FB5-4D92-B43B-F431424E978F.jpeg B854BD29-C130-4A54-BD94-BE1AEC79DBDA.jpeg 85691DD5-AF23-4C33-8B60-44288F193098.jpeg
    I was going to put a Cam style lock. But I figured that would be less adjustable on the fly. It is kind of a four-point pick up but since the diameter of the radiused clamps is a bit smaller than the crucible, it will be an eight point pick up.

    I figure if I’m going to have a different plinth height (with my go to of 2 1/2 inches). I figure the bottom clamps should be below 50% of the height for trapping (there’s not too many guys that share failures online). I have decided to go with a 10° Adjustable wedge.
    67AA3CCC-BD67-4D28-A0C6-402500563EF8.jpeg
    This is somewhat just the prototype stage. In the end I would like to swap out the home made wing-nut with a bronze spin handle and the 3/4-6 acme thread for a 3/4-5 acme thread in stainless steel.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
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  7. Jason

    Jason Gold

    And to think most clowns just use a pair of channel lock pliers to pick them up and pour.:eek::D
     
    OMM likes this.
  8. OMM

    OMM Silver

    Yep, I’ve seen more videos of the same “clowns” you’re talking about! None of them are doing anything real, (or have any real goal). I think a fair shake at lifting tongues and pouring is considered part of PPE.

    I thought in the beginning I would be nuts/crazy to be closer than 8 inches from a crucible charge, but I am finding some with channel locks proving me wrong. Some wearing shorts and sandals and T-shirts. One YouTuber was barefoot.
     
  9. Jason

    Jason Gold

    God protects the dumb.
     
  10. OMM

    OMM Silver

    I disagree! If you used the words, shelters the week, I might come on board.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
  11. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Oh I had some REALLY dumb flight students long ago. Fortunately no one got hurt.
     
  12. HT1

    HT1 Gold Banner Member

    well if you have seen My pouring over here
    http://forums.thehomefoundry.org/index.php?threads/1st-set-of-foundry-tools-question.744/#post-15798

    You Know I use the simplest (safe tools) imaginable, last year I made it through over 100 Pours , I'm below half that this year ( by choice pushed too hard last year)

    I'll always push for simple and Light.

    Though even I think My lifting tongues could use a little strengthening, but that will come with the new furnace when I move up to A20s

    V/r HT1
     
  13. OMM

    OMM Silver

    I enjoyed all your videos. Thanks for the link.

    Do you mind sharing the total weight of your pouring ring and handle is?

    I am weighing in before welding at 7607g (or 16.75Lbs.). I think I can safely remove 1072g. ( or 2.3Lbs.).
    The A12 has a weight of 3154 g (or almost 7Lbs. empty).

    I think I saw during one of your pours your lead hand (closest to crucible) you went gloveless. Then as your hand was getting a little hot and moved away during the pour. Generally how far do you keep your hand away from the charge?
    AA6133D7-19E2-4280-A2A0-8E6E079A0906.jpeg

    Do you think a little radiant heat shield in front of your lead hand would allow you to get closer to the charge?

    With my design, my lead hand will never be able to get any closer than 9 inches away from the charge.

    I brought this over from the other thread.
    If at 11 inches it is 787°F I’m guessing your bare hand is probably back 3 feet?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  14. OMM

    OMM Silver

    Tonight I was prototyping taking the 3/4 x 3/4 solid SS bar and turning it into an I-beam. On my 2” piece, overlaid this will have a weight savings of almost 2 pounds with some cantilevering affects. Right now the interior web is 0.350“ using a 3/8 ball nose carbide cutter. I’m going to reduce this down to 0.250 web. This should be about a 30% weight savings on the solid SS bar.
    8C84F94D-DD98-44D6-BDBA-A296972E8E0B.jpeg F926CD95-9E2C-4DB4-9633-FECB6FF3FCAA.jpeg

    I-beam design takes every pound lost and almost add it to the load capacity. There’s a few more calculations, but this is for the engineers. I’m personally not going to monkey around with calculations!
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  15. HT1

    HT1 Gold Banner Member


    it's light maybe 5 pounds probably less

    I keep my hand back about 32 inches, and occasionally it gets hot , a radiant heat shield would help, and I would add one, but it would interfere with the grounding the Shank to receive the Crucible . a welders hand shield would probably be a working answer for me .

    V/r HT1
     
  16. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    Thanks for the videos.
    I noticed in one of them you simply turned the crucible upside down without returning it to the furnace. I'd been under the impression that that could be an issue for the crucible in terms of thermal shock. I've limited myself to only melting one metal in a session as I don't cross different metals in my crucibles and always cool it in the furnace. Was this an oversight on your part or is the furnace cool-down overblown.
    Just askin.

    Pete
     
  17. OMM

    OMM Silver

    All tack welded up.

    The 3/4 solid stock I carved into a I-beam.
    DB8A0789-2C18-45B7-871A-D3EE79EBB2C9.jpeg
    Without the handle yet or screws it is weighing in at 8.5 pounds.
    4828A66E-915C-44BC-9095-04E4098114DF.jpeg
    Tonight I worked on the screws a wee bit. I wanted them to be a grub screw without threads.
    0D105027-894B-4D5B-9135-3C694A49C8DC.jpeg
     
  18. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Fancy!! Looks good. I like that I beam.
     
  19. OMM

    OMM Silver

    Just over 40 inches of solid bar, I carved the little I-beam into. It’s not much of a weight savings, 2.4 pounds. I was hoping to get a little bit more weight reduction. The closest my lead hand will ever be able to get to the crucible is 9”.
     
  20. OMM

    OMM Silver

    Tongs and shank complete.

    0CEF611A-ACCD-4577-AC11-045DE706A8BA.jpeg

    The weight (not including crucible) came to a grand total of 4496 g (or 9.9 pounds). So Kelly I’m somewhere between your 7 pound and 14 pound shanks. I went a little light on the pipe handle. It is 7/8 diameter with 1/16 wall. I didn’t think it would be taking a lot of strain until it becomes a two-man pour.

    I have not added a back side tilting handle yet. I want to see how it goes using the lead head tilting handle. If I do add a tilting handle, it will be adjustable and removable. I wanted it like this as, I have provisions for a dummy handle for a 2 man lift, and as well having it drop into a cart
    The handle length right now is 38 1/2 inches, with the total length being just shy of 56 inches with the A12. The total length changes with different size crucibles.

    69EEDEEA-D45A-4901-A124-4C9EAEB33A21.jpeg

    The largest crucible it will accommodate is with an 8 inch top. So, it should barely slip over the top of a A20.

    I’m still undecided whether or not I should add a crucible top stop. With the wingnut handle, I can add little or a lot of clamping pressure (obviously A lot would be stupid). If the crucible were to come loose it would be retained by the top crossbar.

    The clamping 1/4 rings and angled gusset are on the weak side. I figured I’ll see what the heat does to them (and my welds) before making any modifications.

    What are your thoughts?
     
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