Consecration Crosses CoM

Discussion in 'Lost wax casting' started by Kurtis Kiesel, Jul 14, 2018.

  1. Kurtis Kiesel

    Kurtis Kiesel Copper

    Starting pictures of my wax model I am assembling.


    I made the bottom rung and just made a bunch of copies, I am now fuzing them and adding a reciever for candle holder arm.

    How thin is to thin? I might be under 5mm thickneess.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
    Jason likes this.
  2. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Really cool looking cross. I dont think you will have any trouble getting it to fill completely.
  3. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member


    It is quite striking in appearance. How did you make the master pattern from which you pulled the mold and the waxes?

  4. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    Nice wax work. I hate metric. 5mm is 13/64" It will fill. I have bronze that filled down to 1/8" rod that was a couple inches long. POUR IT HOT.

    Not being of the catholic faith, how do you USE one of these when consecrating a marriage? :eek:
  5. Kurtis Kiesel

    Kurtis Kiesel Copper

    Consecration Crosses are for buildings. Permanent church buildings are consecrated, and the crosses mark the building as consecrated. So they don't pertain to marriage. The chaple will get 4 crosses, but churches get 12 traditionally. They must be metal or stone by the old rubrics.
  6. Kurtis Kiesel

    Kurtis Kiesel Copper

    It was made by sculpting sculpy, I cheated a little with the stem, which is a 3/8th steel rod I found. The sculpture was destroyed by the negative mold but here is the last picture I took of it. IMG_20180710_220457652-600x1067.jpg IMG_20180710_220504849-600x1067.jpg
    Jason likes this.
  7. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    Awesome. It's a cool piece. I learned something new today. I always thought it was about getting laid when ya get married. :p

    Sculpey is pretty cool to work with. I like how you can keep on baking it as you add stuff and lock in details. It breaks on me sometimes when removing from silicone molds, but who cares by then, it did its job. Did you see the old ladies gave me a couple of thumbs down in that extruder video? They got butt hurt when I called it little girl clay. :D
  8. Kurtis Kiesel

    Kurtis Kiesel Copper

    "Little girl clay" is exactly what sculpey is. You called it like you see it, and facts are facts. I like the "Firm Super Sculpey" product, it is more for teenage girls than the 6-11 year old crowd. Yet, I will use the white or flesh colored stuff too just depends on the project, time and other factors. But the walmart color blocks... yeah it doesn't get more "fun" than that stuff.

    I think it is safe to use the Firm Super Sculpey for small thin pieces or projects you are willing to build up with tin foil and wire. Life size statue? No way. It is a medium that has its place as all tools do.
  9. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    Any progress on your crosses? Please tell me you are going to cast these in BRONZE! I'd be interested in seeing the silicone mold setup for this. I always have a bear of a time running open face molds and would like a new tool for my arsenal of ideas. I'm guessing from the one photo that has a pencil, these are about 12" tall? Small tip for ya... Seeing these are thin, after your third layer of shell, WRAP those with some 20thou stainless steel safety wire. If ya don't, the thin edge of the crosses can blow out the shell. Don't worry about the wire, it will come off easily during breakout. ;)
  10. Kurtis Kiesel

    Kurtis Kiesel Copper


    Sorry about being quiet... Been working the day job at night, and built a structure at the farm.... Back to the project.

    Sent a polymer copy to Mother, here is a potatoes picture: IMG_20180718_062205922_crop_601x601.jpg
    We talked, project completion timing is November.

    Chasing wax, hand making sprues, and an 11 fluid ounce pouring cup...

    I have 5 wax crosses, and I may be crazy, but I am thinking 4 all together in one pour.

    Can anyone give me an approximation of how much 1 fluid ounce of bronze weighs ? I know it varies, but what are the common weights?
    Rtsquirrel and Jason like this.
  11. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    They look really nice. I see you invest top dollars in chinesium wax working tools like I do.:p

    Yeah I would shove all 4 on one fat 3/4" sprue with some 3/8" sprues from the top and the bottom of each cross back to the main deal.... Just like I did with the bronze roses. I would add a 1/4" connector from the side of each cross to the side of the next. This will make them more stable during the shelling process. These would be GREAT candidates for boiling out dewax ala J's style in a big crawfish pot. Keep stuff pointed towards the cup and the wax will float right towards it and out. Here is a great tip for guessing how much bronze to melt. Forget your ounce thing... When spruing is complete, WEIGH the completed wax part.... Multiply it by 9 or 10 and there is your weight in bronze you need to melt. Savvy?

    Rtsquirrel likes this.
  12. Kurtis Kiesel

    Kurtis Kiesel Copper


    I have been rote with wax failures. The wax I am using is not strong enough to hold the whole system. I broke my second attempt this morning on it's third dip. Garrr.

    The wax I am using is more of a sculpting wax 'Victorian'. I think it is time to invest in some expensive stuff. Any recommendations?
  13. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

  14. Kurtis Kiesel

    Kurtis Kiesel Copper

    Lets see a carnage update was requested....

    Here were some tests with the candle ledge...

    Here is one assembled.


    It didn't survive the first dip... here was the last image I took of it.

    So attempt 2 was a new mixture of wax... I added a lot of a harder candle base wax to the sprues... yeah you don't need to tell me. I have learned a lot about waxes since...

    Man it was some pretty sprues....
    Dip #1 went fine...

    Dip #3 was just to heavy...

  15. Kurtis Kiesel

    Kurtis Kiesel Copper

    So.. were is this project? I got a request for a smaller design from the Sisters, 50% smaller in fact. And the deadline pushed back a long while. I whipped up a smaller rendering of the same basic design and I am already casting dragon wax versions. I will have to address my 'burner' in my foundry in the near future.
  16. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    hmm.. Thin stuff can be a bitch. I would suggest adding MANY 1/4 rods on the back of that thing down to the main sprue and spanning the bridge between the two crosses on your tree. The more the merrier. Yeah I know it means more cutoff work later, but its pay now or pay later. Shell gets insanely heavy at around layer 6 or 7. Good luck, you can do it.

    One little suggestion that has helped others with stuff like this... Get to layer 3 and use some 25thou stainless safety wire and tie those crosses together and to the sprue. Then continue dipping. Dont worry about the wire. It will fall away when you break the shell later. If ya need me to spoil off a hundred feet of safety wire for ya and shove it in an envelope, let me know.
  17. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    Hey Kurtis I just noticed you are not running real sprue wax and are using the same wax. Sprue wax is sold for a reason brother. It's sticky as snot, melts at a lower temp. Get some! While you will still want to melt it into your piece with heat, you'll find you can almost build your tree by sticking it together without heat. Yes, gentle hand warming and the stuff is tenacious. It will help hold your work together. I've had good luck with this red stuff.

    At a minimum if you dont want red sprues, get sticky wax and add this to the joints.
  18. Zapins

    Zapins Silver

    You can repair it. Don't throw it away. Place the pieces back together chip off the ceramic shell immediately adjacent to the breaks. Then use a pin tool to rejoin the wax. Once the wax is repaired you can continue coating as normal.

    Add a few extra coats to the damaged part for strength at the end.

    You will have to dry it by putting it down on a surface, not hanging it. Just rotate it every few hours if it isn't drying out everywhere.

    You should have no problems fixing and casting it.

    As a side note, for delicate things like this I use a wire rack to dry it. You can't bank on it being strong enough to hold the weight especially for long thin objects. In fact I don't like hanging any piece up. Seems like a good way to lose an entire piece if it falls. Racks are the safer option.

    I think I use similar wax to you. It's mainly paraffin. Sold by remet for cheap. It fractures and breaks easily and is brittle. It is usable but you need to be very gentle with it or it will break. The sprue wax is crazy priced. Like 3 bucks or more per pound.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  19. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    Yeah zap I only hang small light weight stuff. Everything else upside down resting on the cup. I woudn't save this one. It was only one coat, but I would wash off the shell and silica and save the cross. I've dipped stuff and wasn't happy with the first coat. Cool how you can wash the stuff off.
  20. joe yard

    joe yard Silver

    Zapin I hope you don’t mind as this was one of a long list of questions on our last conversation. I know it will be a while before you can answer them due to the dimensions possibly not fully being determined.
    I was wondering about storing wax in a temperature controlled hot box I know nothing of wax for lost wax molding but it seams logical. If you heat wax or paraffin it becomes very plastic.
    I have an old re-purposed mini fridge that was used with a thermostat and heating pad as a temperature controlled box. It used it way back when to keep chemicals from freezing in an unheated garage.
    Something like this built from as simple Styrofoam cooler and a light bulb with a cheap controller would insure your wax was soft. Holding it at a preset temperature throughout the block. Or with a step controller and a bit more detailed heater could surface heat the wax to depth in a time temperature cycle. This would allow a softer exterior
    They make something like this. It is listed on E-Pay. By changing the controller . A person could easily make a thermal cabinet that could hold temperature from a range of at least 32 degrees F to 140F although a simple Styrofoam cooler, controller a small heating element would give a higher BTU output for faster heating of a cold block of wax. For probably under $30
    Coleman 40-quart Powerchill Thermoelectric Cooler With Power Cord Black/silver
    Brand new
    Make an Offer:
    brand new


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