Old car parts?

Discussion in 'Black smithing projects' started by crazybillybob, May 30, 2018.

  1. crazybillybob

    crazybillybob Copper Banner Member

    Andy,
    I was thinking about adding a locking screw, but with the fit and your comment I'm not going to at this time. If it slips I can always cut a slot in the top and weld a couple of nuts on.

    This weekend was kinda of rainy here so I didn't get to test this thing but I did get the piping installed and some Satanite applied to the inside.

    [​IMG]

    I ran some 1/2" hard line up to the burner because I'm worried the heat from the forge may not do well with the rubber line.
    [​IMG]
    I was not very careful applying the Satanite. It goes with the quick and dirty feel of this forge.
    Hopefully I can get it cured and the burner tested one night this week. I might add another layer of Satanite but I want to see how this goes first.

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  2. oldironfarmer

    oldironfarmer Silver Banner Member

    Hmmm, my sleeve slide in the horizontal, looks like yours is vertical.

    Fire that sucker up, you can add Satanite later if you want. It's on brick anyway.
     
  3. crazybillybob

    crazybillybob Copper Banner Member

    So I leak tested everything last night... There was an issue with the one connection that I had in there due to the only needle valve I could find had a 1/4" npt on one side and 1/4" OD on the other.... Well after the leak and a trip two 2 different local hardwares (one closed @ 6). I found a 1/4"npt valve and got no more leaks! I couldn't stop there so I fired it up!
    [​IMG]
    Until it heated up I had an issue with the burner sputtering like a pulse jet. With a few adjustments to pressure, flow, and air I got her settled down.

    I was able to get the two brackets about 90% down in about 2 Hours. Being able to control the location of the heat really sped the shaping up. Those blacksmith guys might be on to something :)
    [​IMG]
    After running the forge for a few hours I shutdown and let it cool outside over night. After that the Satanite seems to have held up well. there's one small crack down the middle where the seam between the bricks are.

    [​IMG]

    I'm not sure that this little forge will get up to forge welding temps but it will get hot! I had to keep an eye on the steel in there. I was used to using the furnace before, so last night I ran in to the house to pee while the steel was heating and it was almost too hot when I got back just a couple of minutes later (I didn't even get sidetracked on the way back like normal :eek: )
    Now to finish up this bracket!

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    oldironfarmer likes this.
  4. oldironfarmer

    oldironfarmer Silver Banner Member

    Looks great! Also looks like you should have no trouble getting to welding temperature. At worst put another brick in front leaving just enough room for your tongs and the work. Do you have experience forge welding?
     
  5. crazybillybob

    crazybillybob Copper Banner Member

    The only things that I have forged are parts on this car. It's all been mild steel. So no experience forge welding. But I do have some mild steel scrap and a box of Borax that I used for brass casting.... And I'm not scared to try and fail. But I think I need to get some tongs made first. That's on the list next.

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  6. oldironfarmer

    oldironfarmer Silver Banner Member

    HA! Definitely make some tongs first. They're cheap at antique shops if you can find small ones, most in shops are big and heavy.

    When you're ready I'll talk you through forge welding. The worst you can do is have fun.
     
  7. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    You'll usually find horse nippers for clipping hooves. Don't walk away from those when you can snatch them up cheap. They are real easy to turn into a usable set of tongs. Drill the pin if you have to then heat and beat. Reassemble and line them up. Half the work of banging out tongs is already done this way.
     
    oldironfarmer likes this.
  8. oldironfarmer

    oldironfarmer Silver Banner Member

    Good point. You can also cut the nipper jaws back and weld short pieces of split pipe on them to make bolt tongs. And they can be forged with the hinge in place. Final forging needs to be done with the pin in place to make the jaws align accurately. I could pick this coin up off the floor because the jaws match.

    IMG_3737.JPG
     
    Jason likes this.
  9. crazybillybob

    crazybillybob Copper Banner Member

    I'm kicking myself for not picking up that $10 pair of tongs I found at the flea market a couple of months ago. Oh well, guess I get to try my hand at beating some out of steel rectangles. I'm off next week with no travel plans so I'm hoping to get some forging in if the weather isn't crap. I also have somethings to try and cast as well. (plus a Model T rear end to pull and Aux trans to move to a new case, benches to build and a 4th of July Party to prep for.... I might want to take the following week of to recover from my "Vacation" :rolleyes: )

    For forge welding this is the steps as I understand it now.

    Clean the surfaces that are going to be welded.
    Clean the surfaces that are going to be welded.
    Clean the surfaces that are going to be welded.
    Tack weld the bars at the corners
    Warm in the forge
    Flux
    Heat to welding temp
    Medium wacks to set the weld (don't let it cool too much)
    back in the forge to weld heat
    medium wacks (don't let it cool too much)
    Back in the forge to weld heat
    Medium wacks (don't let it cool too much)
    back in the forge to weld heat
    medium wacks
    Forge like normal watching for cracks or delams.

    Now the doing is what I need to do :D (please let me know if any of my steps are wrong, or there's a better way!!)

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  10. oldironfarmer

    oldironfarmer Silver Banner Member

    It's heresy if you use an electric welder to assist in forge welding.:eek:

    Easy was to start is to fold a rod back on itself. Leave the mill scale on. Get it red, add flux. Get it hot.

    What is welding heat? It's like hot short in aluminum. It's just before it sparkles when you take it out of the fire. The iron is soft and mushy. When you are using coal you'll get a green flame at welding heat. The surface of the iron (or steel) will start dancing and spinning in little eddys.

    When you take it out to whack it, it is very soft. Don't whack it, tap it. Just a light tap will weld it. Flux and mill scale will come flying out. More welds are ruined by hitting them to weld than by not hitting them hard enough.

    Next heat you can hit it harder but never very hard.

    After you get a folded back piece welded (don't count on it being the first try) try making a chain link. Chain is fun to make. Don't worry about the hard to understand end prep. Just make a loop and cross the ends then weld them. You'll soon figure out how to upset the metal so you can finish the link of with a consistent diameter through the weld. The first several will be small in the weld area. Make some links then cut opposite the weld and pull the weld apart to see how well it is welded.

    Don't get me wrong, clean is good but don't stress over it until you are trying to make damascus steel out of wide pieces. When you weld wire rope you can't clean inside.

    I'm no expert but I can forge weld with my coal forge.:rolleyes:
     
  11. crazybillybob

    crazybillybob Copper Banner Member

    I learned to weld with oxy-acetylene so the dancing surface is something I am familiar with. By the way that is an excellent description you give! As a kid I messed around with a box of nails and a very hot fire and I think managed to weld a few together. But that was completely by accident. I was heating some up to straighten them out and forgot about a few for awhile. Wacked them with the hammer just to see what I could do.....after they cooled I tried to knock them apart...never did.

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  12. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    I am not good enough to be opposed to using some welding work on something "black smithed" :oops:
    If a little tig work gets me outta the woods faster and cleaner, I'm all for it.:D
     
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  13. crazybillybob

    crazybillybob Copper Banner Member

    Oh, There's going to be welding on this car part. I'm just smithing the bends it will end up being a U shape when all said and done. The spine will be welded to the two sides. The ends may even get boxed so bolting them to the frame doesn't crush the U.

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  14. oldironfarmer

    oldironfarmer Silver Banner Member

    I was being a little facetious on the welding. But it is fun to make stuff with just some coal and tools you have hammered out.
     
  15. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    I'd like to screw with forge welding someday when I have the time to get a little deeper into the blacksmithing thing. Did you guys see that guys power hammer in one of chirpys recent videos? I want one of those. The renters living next door are going to LOVE IT!
     
  16. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Silver Banner Member

    Didn't look too hard to build either... :D

    Jeff
     
  17. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    It's just a furnace laying on it's side with a back door for long stuff.
     
  18. crazybillybob

    crazybillybob Copper Banner Member

    Jason, Mine is less complicated than a furnace, but yes it's more or less a sideways furnace with a back door.

    The rain went away for the evening and I was able to tweak the brackets into a "Close Enough" state. I'm going to end up tacking them together and Grinding the side the back is going to weld to just to make sure it sits flat and lines up 100% (ok I'll take 92% if it comes to it).
    [​IMG]

    Then I felt froggy and started smacking some metal into a tong like shape. I stopped beating about 10 PM because I try not to bug all my neighbors too much. I got about 50% of one side "rough forged".
    [​IMG]
    I really don't "know" what I'm doing. I've done some research and watched a couple of YouTube videos. So I started with isolating the rivet boss. Then worked on drawing out the jaws. Twisted the last 2" perpendicular to the flat of the bar. Then I started drawing out the handle. I know I did it backwards I started from the Rivet boss and moved back. I did this for 2 reasons. 1 I have no clue how much material I'm going to need (I want to use these to drop charges into my furnace too so longer is better). 2nd I don't have tongs so I can't grab glowing metal and I just forged the jaws...their stupid hot!!. Knowing this I'm keeping things thicker than I think they need to be till I get a rough length . then I'll cut the extra off and forge the small end up to the big end. I know that the jaw is sorta a mess, I'm hoping that I can learn a little by beating the handle in place then I'll be able to fix the jaw....or I have a grinder :D. I was surprised how much I could get the steel to move when it was properly hot with just a 3# hammer. I didn't have to beat it, just lift the hammer and let gravity do most of the work. The few times I did wack it early on I almost over did it as it moved too much. Hopefully the rain stays away and I can get some more done tonight, It's hot enough around that forge in the evening when it's been 75-80 out now they are calling for 90+ degrees F I don't want to fire it up during the day if I don't have to!!. Let me know if I'm doing something totally wrong or I've screwed something up so bad I can't fix it!

    Bruce
     
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  19. oldironfarmer

    oldironfarmer Silver Banner Member

    Looks good to me. Make the second one before you go too far. Put a bolt in and you can make them match while both are hot, but use a rivet on the finished tongs. There's just no substitute for experience. You'll like your second set of tongs better, but I'm still using my first set.
     

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