Fuel tanks and delivery lines

Discussion in 'Furnaces and their construction' started by OMM, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. OMM

    OMM Silver Banner Member

    I’m just wondering what you guys are using just before your burner? Tank? Off-the-shelf jerry can? Or homemade tower of power... LOL. or just sipping out of a 5 gallon pail.

    - Those that are using propane probably have a little bit of a problem in the middle of a melt swapping tanks. - Those who are using gravity feed are playing with variable pressure during a melt... (like Jason) could just walk over and top up his tank during the burn.
    - Those who are using pumps could top up their fuel at any time... (like Dennis)
    - Those who are pressurizing their fuel tank with (air compressor compressed) air would have the same problem as those that are using propane when topping up their tank in the middle of the melt.

    As well, I’m wondering what kind of line/hose are you delivering the fuel (diesel, propane, WO, WVO) with, and what’s OD/ID?(polyurethane, polyethylene, vinyl, rubber reinforced fuel line...)

    I seem to have no problem delivering diesel fuel 300 mL per minute(or 5 gallons per hour). When it comes to waste oil (or waste vegetable oil) the viscosity through the same lines as the Diesel, I’m getting around 80mL per minute(or 1.25 gallons per hour).

    The choker for me on this whole equation is the brake line ID is only 1/8 of an inch.
     
  2. joe yard

    joe yard Silver

    Hi Matt
    I was working on my fuel delivery system yesterday. I have decided to use a 12VDC fuel pump rated at less than 10 psi. As you can see in the picture there is a fuel pressure regulator that I am not planning on using at this time. It is the unattached round chrome thing in the pictures. Plans do have a way of changing. The regulator if used has 5 settings representing from 1 to 5 psi. output. For now the plan is just to use the pump at full pressure output and regulate it with the valve.
    The lines carrying both the air from a small air brush compressor and the fuel from the tank will 1/4" to ½" flex hydraulic line. The air compressor will be mounted on the rear heat shield of the furnace just under the boat hoist. I like to use hydraulic line for this purpose because it has an inner fuel rated lining protected by a duel steel cored braid covered in a fuel rated rubberized skin.
    They make different sizes of break line. 1/8", 3/16", 1/4", and 5/16" should be available in roles starting in 25' lengths from any chain automotive parts shop.
    P1030827.JPG P1030828.JPG P1030824.JPG P1030825.JPG
    Joe
     
  3. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    I cut my used black goo with about 20% jet-a and point a small space heater at it overnight in the garage during the winter months. In the summer it flows just fine without it.
    "Long live the Tower of Power!" lol free power!:D aka cheap ass.:p

    I've got a good 36" drop for my used oil to the burner and it actually only falls about 6" from that height start to finish so I don't see any pressure changes as the level goes down. Ever see a photo of Richards rig? I think his oil bucket gets hoisted to his roof down in mexico. Maybe he will post that photo here for ya, it's pretty ingenious.
     
  4. Petee716

    Petee716 Silver Banner Member

    I run 1/4" fuel rated hose from the tank to the burner. Once it gets to the burner into goes into 1/8" NPT. My choke point is the plastic quick connects on the hose which have hose barb connections. I'm running pressurized waste oil so the choke down at the connector is of little consequence. I use a Delevan nozzle.
    I use a gas hot water tank for my oil storage and delivery. It a 50 gal tank. It's a bit on the large side but it's what I had available at the time and doesn't have any bigger footprint than a smaller water tank would. The reason that I found it appealing is because it was already a pressure rated vessel, glass lined, has a drain at the bottom, and plenty of threaded holes in it. The only thing I had to do to the tank was to pull the dip tube and plug the vent hole in it with epoxy. That probably wasn't necessary but it seemed like a good idea. I pulled the anode out and put in a tee for a fill port and pressure relief valve. The threaded holes in the side where the thermostat/controller and pressure relief valve were serve as connections for the site tube. I didn't even have to remove the skin off the tank. I send compressed air into the "hot"side and oil pushes up the tube and out the "cold" side, through the spin on filter, and on to the burner. I run the hose through a hole in the barn wall out to my furnace.
    I preheat my furnace with deisel in an elevated kitty litter bucket. Once it's up to temp I just switch hoses at the burner and adjust the controls accordingly.
    At the height that I raise the bucket (about 8') and the amount of fuel I use, the variation in head height is of little consequence. If I recall correctly Richard is using a 5gallon bucket raised 15 feet or so into a drip burner. Even if he runs that from full to empty I doubt the variation in flow matters at all.

    Pete
     
  5. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Silver Banner Member

    I am simply using an automotive fuel pump to provide 9 pounds pressure to the .75 siphon nozzle and burning either diesel or Jet-A which are nearly the same and burn the same. I have a tap on a 5 gal jerry can and run 20 feet through 1/4” standard rubber fuel line. The siphon nozzle is the rate-limiting factor, not the fuel filter, lines, or quick connects in my case. Temperature of diesel fuel does not change it viscosity noticeably in the normal temp ranges in the PNW—-30 to 90 deg F. I know my life is simple...

    Denis
     
  6. OMM

    OMM Silver Banner Member

    Today I put together a prototype for the waste vegetable oil (just using ABS). It has a 4 inch ID and I cut the pipe 2 feet long. I calculated it to have aboat 5 L volume (or 1.3 gallons) which I think will be fine for short-term prototype testing. I’m going to add a sight to the side to read fluid level. In the future I, would like to do this with the little pink helium tanks. I am going to pull a lead line from my blower and try to pressurize the in-line hose tank. I added the shut off valve on the male nipple end, so I might be able to fill that tank mid burn by just dropping another pressurized tank on top. I’m hoping that the rubber O-ring in the cleanout will hold enough of my blower pressure without leaking.
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  7. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    Be careful pressurizing that pipe. I'd feel better if you were running galvanized, but it is what it is.
     
  8. OMM

    OMM Silver Banner Member

    I’m only going to try pressurizing it from my fan blower, not an air compressor. It would be lucky to see more than 10 psi.

    When the college opens in the fall (September) I will see what they have for offcuts in schedule pipe. You would be surprised what goes out in the College scrap bin.

    I work part time at the college trying to edugumacate students.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
  9. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    Ah, you're plenty safe at 10psi. I went to melt fox #2 the other day and when I lowered it, it didn't make it in the crucible and ended up on the floor of the furnace. So I just shut it down, got a good grip on his ass and pulled him out. Re lit and went back to melting. No harm no foul. Even if you had to shut down to refuel for a minute, it's not usually a deal breaker. ;)
     
  10. OMM

    OMM Silver Banner Member

    Thanks Jason! After thinking about this a little more, WVO is not that volatile. During my tests I’ve had some loss of fuel and loss of air. The loss of air seems to make the mushroom cloud.
     
  11. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    Ive had flame outs on just diesel and suffered the white mushroom cloud. When you're dumping tons of fuel and no air, its pretty dramatic. We live under a constant burn ban, amazing no one has turned me in. People on my street either need my help or are scared of the crazy guy in the chrome suit. Tig flashes through the garage windows at 4am probably help keep up the illusion. I told the renter next door one day dont piss me off. They've been quiet ever since I threatened to buy a power hammer.:D
     
  12. oldironfarmer

    oldironfarmer Silver Banner Member

    I use a 250 gallon propane tank. I've never switched tanks during a melt. Fuel flow through a 30 psi regulator on the tank then through a commercial propane hose (3/8") with quick disconnects (propane rated) to the burner. I disconnect the hose and store it inside after every session.

    My waste oil is a 20 gallon oil drain tank rated for 40 psi (cost $99 delivered) to which I added a sight glass. I refill it when it is convenient, about every 30 melts. It runs at 10 psi through an old air hose to my burner. It stays connected and I coil up the hose to store the burner inside, the oil drain tank (pressure tank) stays inside.
     
  13. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Silver Banner Member

    I've run out of oil/diesel with my small drip feed tank a few times when doing back to back melts or just one longer than usual melt.

    With a gravity fed drip burner, it's an easy fix, I just turn the propane back on, turn the oil shutoff valve off, and take oil tank down off its hook to refill. Then I hang it back up, open the ball valve, wait for the oil to make its way down the line with my hand on the propane shutoff, and turn the propane back off once the drip resumes. Pretty simple, but I'd like to cobble together a bigger tank some day and have to do this less often.

    Jeff
     
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  14. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    Where you been hiding Jeff? I figured you were locked in the basement making K bond? ;)
     
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  15. OMM

    OMM Silver Banner Member

    Well I just finished testing the prototype adding the blower air. I got results that I am quite pleased with.

    I did three tests with the same set up. The hose is 5/16 ID and the Barb inside the hose has an ID of 3/16. The hose is 3 feet long. The ID of the brake line which is delivering the diesel or waste vegetable oil is only 1/8 of an inch.

    -First test I did with just a quick connect male air nipple at the end of the line, just atmospheric air entering through the ball valve at the top. ====>I got 100 mL per minute.
    -Second test I did, I added on the torch tip which has its own male quick connect and kept everything the same as the first test. ====> I got 40 mL per minute.
    - third test I added the blower air to the quick connect nipple on the top of the ABS tank. With the blower running and the torch tip connected. ====> I got 350 mL per minute. Woo hoo.

    (100 mL per minute is just over 1.5 gallons per hour. With the blower air, I was getting about a soda can worth of vegetable oil Per minute or 5.5 gallons per hour)

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  16. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Silver Banner Member

    Looks and sounds like it's coming along nicely!

    Jason - been trying to tidy up my shed so it's easier to work in and less of me climbing over things to move around. But I've still been checking new posts here a few times daily; if I've seemed quiet lately, it's just that I haven't felt I had anything much to add to the ongoing discussions. So I'm not hiding, not any more than I've secretly been mulling up batches of oil bonded sand... :D

    Jeff
     
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  17. HT1

    HT1 Silver

    Ok so I built this for the Couple of times I used Oil . it's a 12 X 12 inch 1/4 plate tank, I'm a certified High Pressure welder so no concerns. the inlet is at the top with a regulator to the tank so I can set the fuel delivery pressure the fuel outlet is at the bottom the tee sends air to the siphon Burner ( I made and used a siphon burner for a couple of heats, I have sold the burner to Someone here or AA) I

    V/r HT1

    [​IMG] http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h323/HT1/Moya Burner/064_zpseuh1pcqu.jpg
     
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  18. OMM

    OMM Silver Banner Member

    Just that tank (by my calculations) is over 41 pounds empty. Holding about 6.5 gallons would be adding another 30 pounds Plus all the valves and pipes! 80-ish pounds...

    I like the thought of that design. After reading Dennis’s thread again on his pump/flow counter I think I’m going to make a custom bung lid and maybe just try to pressurize a Jerry can. I picked up 2 today. I don’t want to modify the jerry can by drilling holes in it. So, I’ll Turn up a custom cap With pressure in and maybe a long straw pushing the fuel back out.
     
  19. Mister ED

    Mister ED Silver Banner Member

    Although I have not used it too much, I picked up a used soda keg (Corny Keg). Quick connects on the air and and fuel feed (normally diesel), regulator and gauge to adjust tank over pressure, 1/4" braided line for the fuel line. Handy, easy to handle and store. I just make sure its full at the start of each session.
     
  20. HT1

    HT1 Silver

    your right its crazy meaty and over engineered. could have done it out of 1/8 no problem . but I used what I had. at the time I had access to a shear so it was no Problem at all


    V/r HT1

    P.S. it will hold 90 PSI :)

    P.P.S if you can find an old air compressor tank with a large opening for the fill it would be perfect
    https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/3Z409_AS01?$mdmain$
     
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