An early siphon-nozzle burner design

I can see how SOMETHING such as a spin vane, speed bump, lump of coal inside that pipe would help splash the fuel around with a drip burner....

But there is a marked difference in atomized fuel vs just dumping it in. I swear this thing all comes down to the resistance to own, run and operate an air compressor.
I know there is a better way to do this with an electric pump, but I just don't have the time to screw with reinventing the wheel. I'm atomizing fuel like a champ and anything stuffed up my pipe would just slow down my forced airflow.

 

The Delavan nozzle has spin vanes cut into the tip.

There must be something to be gained from the spinning with regards to a furance.

I agree though, it pretty much all boils down to whether you want to operate an air compressor.
I still think a Delavan may work with zero air pressure (5 psi on the tank), if the furnace is hot.

 

Based on my "cooling furnace" experience that I mentioned in the previous post. I have absolutely no doubt that a spin vane will at the very least allow you to ramp up the volume of oil you can introduce into the furnace more rapidly. What you considering "clues" I view as proof of concept.

In a hot furnace or not, the effect of spinning air stream will undoubtedly help assist in the atomization of the fuel stream. It's really no longer a "drip" burner at high volume...lol

Yep, that's the problem with spin vanes... There is a marked decrease in air flow. I have had my furnace oil feed and blower air maxed out. Didn't try iron with it or take temp readings unfortunately. I have a much greater restriction to combustion air in my butterfly valve though. Whenever I finally get my beefed up oil pump hooked up, I may need to address combustion air.

Read up on the science on nozzle atomization. The spinning air (low pressure zone) plays a critical role in how a nozzle operates. Not that I believe that same science is in application with a beefy sin vane

 

That delavan is definitely a nice piece of enginerding thats for sure.

 

The vanes on the delevan hago nozzles are used to atomize the oil, the vanes around the nozzle in the combustion air stream help mix the combustion air into the flame they are not necessary but they do shorten the flame length.

Art b

 

Should the vanes in the burner tube match the direction of the vanes in the nozzle tip?

 

I would think so to keep the spin smooth....

 

That was my thinking too, since counter-rotating spins could act to cancel each other out.

 

typically they do but I don't know why!!!!!!!! and would they be reversed for those down under

 

Put in simple terms that's exactly right. The spin the vanes place on the compressed air helps form a low pressure zone just in front of the nozzle which breaks the oil up into droplets. I found the explanation of the science pretty interesting.

I'll agree when speaking in terms of the application in regards to a nozzle burner. In the drip application it may be bold to claim they are "necessary" but none the less perform a function that benefits a drip burner's effectiveness.

I posted the video with the spin vane affecting the water stream. I guess to really down the point, I'll have to do the same without the spin vane in place. Maybe that will get a few more people on this side of the fence...lol

I don't think that can/would happen. The effect of the nozzle vanes is performing a function well before the spinning combustion air comes into play. The point of the vanes in the nozzle is to create a low pressure zone, not spin the air to create a mix with the fuel. Having the combustion air combining with the nozzle spray isn't going to prevent that from happening.

 

Hold on... I was just exercising my GoogleFu and depending on the nozzle in question there are two different processes. One type will spin the air, another will spin the fluid.

Looks like we need to determine exactly what type/make of nozzle we're discussing.

 

[QUOTE="J.Vibert, post: 4184, member: 54"

I'll agree when speaking in terms of the application in regards to a nozzle burner. In the drip application it may be bold to claim they are "necessary" but none the less perform a function that benefits a drip burner's effectiveness.
.[/QUOTE]

I said that the spin vanes in the air stream were NOT necessary but would shorten the flame length.

the Delevan/hago nozzles both rotate the compressed air stream around the oil, I haven't seen one that rotates the oil around the air stream, there are some of the pumped oil nozzles that don't use compressed air that do rotate the oil. they use a low pressure air stream for primary air.

Art B

 

we are discussing two different sets of vanes and the operate in two different areas of combustion. The Nozzle vanes are for atomization and do in-train some primary combustion air, the vanes in the air tube are to help mix the secondary combustion air into the fuel cone.

primary air is the air used in the very first part of combustion it is the air that must be raised to the combustion temp before ignition takes place, secondary air is the air that is used in the final areas of combustion.

art b

 

Guess I missed placing a 'I' in my response. What I meant was, 'I' wouldn't be so bold as to claim that spin vanes are necessary within the drip burner. However they do perform a function that benefits its effectiveness.

 

The weather has turned off rather cool here again.
We had some nice days in the 50's.

No burner tests in 30 F weather for this fellow.

 

If I had a lathe I’d be concentrating on building and attaching a mini turbine blower with an external drive motor on a speed regulator.

Seems like that would resolve 2 issues in one shot.
Atomization of the oil and force air feed.

Just a thought.

 

I have thought about a motorized windmill affair that would spin and atomize dripped oil, but I have never figured out how to do that through a burner, and with the heat and all being an added consideration with keeping bearings oiled.

There has also been talk of ultrasonic atomizers, but again, with the heat and all I am not sure how well it would hold up.

The siphon-nozzle burner is basically a pneumatic atomizer, with no moving parts in the burner, so that simplifies things inside the burner tube.

 

Think of a design such as a Supercharger / blower on a dragster.

You have your pipe, an area bored out in the mid section, an adaptor spacer fitted to that intake opening which will be your mounting base for the SC/blower.
Of course you would need a extremely high spinning motor attached externally to the burner.
To make it work, the SC/blower drive gear (sprocket) (think of timing gears) would have to face the front of the burner and the drive motor gear/sprocket end would be reversed facing the rear of the burner so it could mate with the SC/blower gear.

Now, the above idea is faulty because you want the drive motor (power) as far away from the heat as possible so in reality the entire setup would have to be flip flopped around (reversed).
With the last statement in mind, the rotary vanes would need a fin design and be machine in a reverse direction so the drive motor could be placed at or toward the rear of the burner and away from your heat source.

Following me?

I'd go gear driven because a belt wouldn't last long.
Your entire SC/blower system would be external of the burner set up yet be a bolt on addition.

I really need to get a CAD program one of these days and start learning how to use it.

 

I have seen too many funny car blowers launch themselves into outer space.

On good backfire would do it.

 

John this sounds like a good torch for you to pick up and carry.

I'm thinking about a hydraulic pump spun from a typical AC motor. Pressurized to about 1500psi in a loop. We can tap some of this off to spray through a nozzle like whats found on a pressure washer. No air compressor needed then. Less moving parts than a supercharger.