Duck house....

I thought you installed the circuit as well and was going to ask for a video.

Ok... so basically you want the door to open automatically from a timer and close the door manually via a button. Your materials are (correct me if I'm wrong) two 12V relays (what contacts do they have) and the two rocker switches (one to be replaced by the timer circuit/switch).

There are at least a couple options this could be done. First option, the timer gives a latching signal to one relay to open the door (which unlatches when the door is fully open -NC terminal switch). To close the door you can push a button (ideally momentary switch) to latch the other relay to close the door (and when the door is closed the terminal switch will end the procedure).

Second option, the timer powers the open door relay until the door is fully open and it is disconnected with the open door terminal switch. To close the door you also manually turn on the switch (ideally rocker switch) until the door is visibly closed or until a NC terminal switch powers it off. The close door switch then must be turned to Off position.

Personally I would prefer the option with the latching relays as it is more "safe", despite having some complexity to wire. I can make up a wiring diagram if you want.

 

I need some help figuring this out. I got the items I listed before and hooked them up like I described. The momentary switch works perfectly and fixes that part of the circuit but the timer unit acts strangely. I do not know why it isn't working.

When I hook it up directly to the motor with a limit switch in line it works perfectly (as seen bottom left picture) but when I connect it to the relay diagram as shown with dotted lines it doesn't work. It does not power up the motor at all. I think this means something isn't working with the relays but I do not understand how they route power so I am having trouble troubleshooting where it needs to be connected.

For reference I wired up the timer like this which appears to work when directly hooked to motor.


Also not sure if it matters but I am powering both the relay circuit and the timer unit off the same 12v power. Two separate lines go from the charger to the relay and to the timer unit. I'm not sure if this somehow interferes?

 

So the basic functions you're looking for are:

1. Open the door automatically at a certain time in the morning to let the ducks out.
2. Close the door with the push of a button and cut motor power when fully closed.
3. Open the door at the push of a button and cut motor power when fully open.
4. Prevent a power supply short circuit if both buttons are pushed together (lockout function).

So the morning door open timer (normally open contacts) and the momentary door open button should be in parallel with each other .... and then both are in series with the "open" limit switch. This lets the button and timer override each other while the limit switch has ultimate control. I'll draw a circuit once I get some spare time and post it.

 

looks very complicated. I think i would attempt to train the ducks to open the door themselves

 

Zapins I think something is mixed up in your electronics.

Before trying to resolve it I would suggest to follow Mantrid's advice first; seems easier.

If not, let's take this from the start. First, you need separate power supply for the timer and the load unless you can wire up a suitable diode. This avoids possible power transmission through not desired paths (bridging). Next, I've written it before, the terminal switches should disconnect the power for the action and not the motor cables. Better yet, they must unlatch the relay that powers one action of the motor.

The wiring on your diagram looks quite wrong. 13 and 14 contacts are the coil contacts and they are connected with the NC or NO contacts. That's not good. I think everything can be done with one relay, the timer and the switches. I'll draw something new as well.

 

The reason each relay coil is routed through the normally closed contacts of the opposite relay is to prevent both relays from being turned on at once, if open and close buttons are pressed at the same time. Without that, pressing both buttons will short circuit the motor power supply. You can refer to the diagram on post #22 for clarification.

Here's the schematic with momentary pushbuttons and the door open timer added (as normally open relay contacts).

 

Oh I see, didn't look into the logic much as I had it designed differently in my mind.

 

First time I built something like this it was for a small tabletop elevator device for a lab....they blew it up within an hour by mashing both buttons and blowing the power supply fuse .

 

I did blow my first power supply :/ luckily nothing else fried that I know of.

Thank you for redesigning it. I'm gonna closely examine the changes and give it a go.

I'm still unsure how relay logic works. Is here a good explanation on how they work?

 

There's entire fields of engineering devoted to logic circuits and relays are just another active switching device. Probably your best bet is to experiment with relays and even common logic devices like 4xxx and 74xx series integrated circuits to get a feel for them. Then define the problem/task in writing accurately and work up the circuit from there. Any logic task can be defined using Boolean algebra as an equation first and then worked up as a logic circuit using logic devices from there, whether they are relays or logic gates in generic glue logic chips. These days you'd use an arduino board or an ESP8266 board and write a program using the Arduino software development environment.

 

Normally open switches. Thats the opposite of my momentary switch? And not the rocker switches either?

Oh ok I think I see what you mean by in parallel. I was doing it in series and no power was being sent through the timer to the motor. Small change from what I had. The rest looks the same.



And just to confirm, I can power both the relay and the timer off the same power source right? Like put the two devices in parallel?

This is how my timer is wired

 

Normally open is a more detailed description of a momentary switch which could also be normally open or normally closed and still be momentary operation. The rocker switches could only be used if you always left them off and quickly pulsed them on and then off again....so a pain in the butt to use. Rocker switches are typically "constant" not momentary (though there are exceptions to this like ignition/starter motor rocker switches).

It should be fine to power everything off the one power supply, you can also wire a decent sized electrolytic capacitor (2000 uF 12V rated or higher) directly to the timer terminals to iron out any momentary power fluctuations when relay coils or motors energize, just be sure to wire it close to the timer power terminals. Judging by that wiring diagram, you have a basic power reverse relay that continuously supplies power to the motor non-stop in one direction or another and would require two limit switches in series with each other and the coil to cut power on full open or close..... and need manual bypassing every time so that won't work either , so you're back to a second relay again.

 

The circuit doesn't seem to work. Its totally messed up the function now. It seems to reverse the direction and bounce back and forth. And then when one switch is pushed the timer light blinks and the motor stutters which is what happened before the first charger blew. So I turned it off. Not sure what the heck.

I really don't understand this timer. The circuit should work if I could simply use it to turn off and on power just like a button.

 

Have you checked for obvious things first like the limit switches are not arse about: "door closed" limit switch is not in the "door open" limit position and vice versa and the open and close manual operation switches are momentary, normally open switches and not those blue rocker switches?.

 

Will have to check again. I think they should be correct though. I didn't change anything except add the new parallel circuit

 

Something tells me you guys will be eating these quackers pretty soon!

 

how much is gas in the usa
were currently paying £1.72 per litre ($8.55 per US gallon) of diesel. petrol is about 10p cheaper.

 

Around my part we're seeing $4.10 per gallon. But we're off the beaten path in the midwest takes a couple days for the price changes to show up at the pump...Whenever the next truck delivers normally.

 

Around here gas is $1.76-1.86 per litre Cdn so, $5.16-$5.46 USD per U.S. gallon, diesel is about 10¢/L more.