Failed 50 amp Plug

Discussion in 'Furnaces and their construction' started by Al2O3, Feb 7, 2022.

  1. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    I have a 6 gauge drop cord with 50 amp plug/receptacle I use to power my resistive electric furnace. The furnace is instrumented and at full power draws 33 amps. I figure 6ga is good for double that but with 4 conductors and 35ft of cord, sufficient margin. I do have a very small amount of instrument current in the neutral leg as I use one leg of the (US) 240vac for 120vac instrument and accessories.

    During my timing cover melt, I moved the cord and shortly after I did I smelled hot/burning plastic and the plug was starting smoke. I briefly shut down, unplugged and inspected the plug and receptacle. It wasn't pretty. But I quickly cleaned the conductors, cooled it down with compressed air, and was able to continue and complete the melt and pour.

    1 Plug and Recptacle.JPG

    I checked a second such plug on the e-insert for my large furnace......also very bad.

    2 Second Plug.JPG

    The insulation on the individual conductors inside was cooked. I bought the plugs years ago. They were very inexpensive Amazon specials, like $6 each. The conductor tangs were actually quite robust but over time seem to oxidize heavily with use. I've been wire wheeling them clean before use. This time I didn't.

    I suspect they are a less expensive copper alloy, have higher resistance in general, but especially so if oxidized. I pitched and replaced both of them. The replacements are of course Amazon special imports too. $17 each.

    3 New Receptacle.JPG 4 New Plug.JPG

    I'll keep an eye on them. Maybe I should apply some conductive grease. Any opinions on that?

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  2. Smoking Shoe

    Smoking Shoe Silver

    Same gauge wire and plugs I have/had planned for my 6kw build. I too thought I'd have good margin. Now I'm not so sure.

    Long time ago I ran across a circuit breaker that had a similar problem due to a corroded tang in the box. It would trip due to heat. Not wanting to replace the panel I cleaned it and the breaker, applied some dielectric grease and reinstalled the breaker. That was 40 years ago and it is still functional. Other than getting grit in the grease maybe this should be SOP for us?

    The photo of your new plug looks kind of suspect. In the photo it looks a lot like plated steel contacts?
     
    Jason likes this.
  3. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Even with the cord length and number of conductors I think 50 amp rating for the plugs is sufficient as long as the connections are clean. 6ga stranded conductor should be more than sufficient. I think those plugs I had were Sh!t. I know the furnace was drawing 33 amps. It would have been interesting to see current draw at the wall plug. FWIW, the plug on that end of the cord was/is pristine after years of use and no special care.

    This was why I was dithering. If it wasn't a connection that was frequently separated and stored in open air, I wouldn't hesitate, but the likelihood it will attract dirt and eventually foul the connection versus isolate it from air and oxidation causes me to take pause.

    Had same thought but they are not magnetic and scratching surface says not plated, but neither are the ones on the Sh!t plugs. Doesn't mean they are proper copper with that color, but not steel.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  4. metallab

    metallab Silver

    You did not specify the thickness of the cord / wires. 50 A requires at least 4 mm2 conductors. 2.5 mm2 can bear at most 35A. 4mm2 has a diameter of about 2.5mm which is 3/16".
     
  5. Smoking Shoe

    Smoking Shoe Silver

    6 gauge = 4.1mm dia. = 13.3mm^2
    Voltage drop over 30ft (10M) is only about 0.5% at 35 amps. We should be good with this wire.
     
  6. metallab

    metallab Silver

    Gauge ? Is that a new unit of length ? I know inches and (milli)meters.
    6 gauge = 4mm, so 1 gauge is 0.68mm ?
     
  7. rocco

    rocco Silver

    6 gauge=4.115mm, 1 gauge = 7.348mm

    The American Wire Gauge system has been in use in North American since the 1850's, like many American measurement systems, it doesn't really make any sense, there is an absolutely ridiculous formula that no one remembers which converts gauge number to diameter, a smaller number is a bigger diameter.

    AWG diameter.jpg
     
  8. Smoking Shoe

    Smoking Shoe Silver

    I agree. It is too bad we didn't go all metric back in the Jimmy Carter days.
     
  9. FishbonzWV

    FishbonzWV Silver Banner Member

    The ol’ “you get what what you pay for” rings true with these plugs.
    Next time you do a search, put the word industrial in.
    Hubbell, Eaton, and Leviton have industrial rated plugs/receptacles. You’re looking at $40-50 range.
    I’ve seen a few burnt plugs like that on RV’s that come into our trailer park. Luckily they don’t take out my hookups.
     
  10. rocco

    rocco Silver

    No argument from me. I'm in Canada, we have kind of a weird mix of both systems here, it's just stupid but, we do way too much business with the U.S. to go full metric unless they do too and I don't see that happening any time soon.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2022
  11. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    It's stranded flexible cable. Even the lowest grade 6 gauge SO cord would be rated for 45 amps for that length 4-conductor cord both of which de-rate the standard ampacity. I think the cord is fine. It's the quality of the plug, not its NEMA configuration.

    Ampacity wire-size-table-CU.jpg

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  12. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Yup.. the china curse strikes again. You keep that thing at your house! Last thing I need is a car stuck 8ft down a hole!:eek::oops:
    I'm with the Shoe, the shitty ones might have been just copper plated. I don't put anything past these crooked bastards, they are the kings at saving half a penny.
     
  13. GTS225

    GTS225 Silver

    It's not necassarily the plug or receptacle.....it's the connection. I've seen similar stuff and while inspecting, found that the clamping screw terminals, inside the plug, holding the wire had loosened over time, causing a poor connection. Poor connections cause heat, heat/cool cycles cause more loosening, causing poorer connections, and around we go.
    The receptacle can be at fault, too. Those are just spring tension making connection between the blade and reciever. Enough use and age, and they lose thier tension, causing a poor connection, and around we go again.

    Shoot, I've even seen burned up wire nuts in a junction box on older 120V wiring.

    Oh, and Jason? It's not all the Chinese industrial machine's fault, although your point certainly has truth in it.
    We can certainly shoulder part of the blame, as we just keep wanting that low price point. The suppliers/ "manufacturers" keep accomodating us, and don't ask for the "good stuff". The Chinese can build good stuff, even great stuff, but it will be higher priced, just as if it was built within our own borders. Ya wants good, ya gots to pay for it.

    Roger, the retired industrial maintenance electrician.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
    Petee716, Jason and Melterskelter like this.
  14. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    I looked it over pretty good and they definitely were not loose. I broke each one loose and looked at the contacting surfaces. The type of binding terminal left something to be desired for 6ga cable. The small screw and stamped clip didn't result in a lot of contact area with the stranded conductor. The new plug and receptacle have large binding lugs with a screw that's almost .25"D.......much better. The blades aren't as thick as the failed ones but we'll see how the blades perform and age.

    The previous ones did see 5yrs and ~300-400hrs of service so they didn't arrive at that condition in a day. As mentioned, the plug on the other end of the cord is pristine and the dimensions and appearance of the blades are identical to the new replacement plugs, so makes me more suspect of the old plugs design or materials.

    True. The one on the end of the cord was molded so it couldn't be easily disassembled for inspection. I cut it apart on the band saw but couldn't tell much.

    Also all made in China. Using industrial in a search is like using heavy duty....they all are....:) Eaton is not even a US company. Doesn't mean they aren't a recognizable brand or cant make quality product, just sayin'.

    Sort of funny you feel that way because you're a bit more invested in them than just a plug, it's the whole lift down in a hole in your floor for you........LMAO!.....and the plug blades aren't just plated, already covered that.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  15. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Yeah tell me about it.:oops:
    Just the way things are these days. Was your stuff UL ???
    Remember when I built this contraption last year? All this import crap came from home depot and zhould be UL.:rolleyes: It's raining chinese vfds at my house and with half the insane stuff I do, you can bet, when I turn my back, I flip breakers. I'm forever touching stuff looking for heat because I dont trust one bit of it. Having 4 vfds, I know one day I will smell that acrid tell tale my shit is burning. The odds are not in my favor.:(

    20210616_045827.jpg
     
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  16. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    For the old plugs, not likely. The new ones make some claims.

    5 Certs.JPG

    I liked the lugs and strain relief on the replacements. The strain relief was one of the few large enough to accommodate the 1" cord OD. And the add says it's super heavy duty.......so how can you go.....LoL.

    I had been keeping an eye on the old ones. When I started to see signs of heat and oxidation on the blades, I'd clean them and feel the temp of the plug/receptacle. I just couldn't do anything about the receptacle and my guess is it degraded over time. I'll keep an eye on the new ones but if they are at least as good as the old ones, it may take 5 years for the next update.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  17. GTS225

    GTS225 Silver

    Gotta like that sticker. Claims to "conform to" UL standards, but doesn't have a UL tested indication, or number on it.

    It's now left up to the buyer to determine what the UL standard 498 is, and to compare it to CSA standard C22.2, #42, just to see if they'll do what's needed.

    Roger
     
    Jason likes this.
  18. Jason

    Jason Gold

    They are the masters of deception!
     
  19. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    ................or just plug'em in and see how they work. First couple hours were normal with no noticeable temp rise and still look like new......time will tell.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  20. GTS225

    GTS225 Silver

    Well, that'll work, over time. However, by the tiime you visually notice anything, the damage has been done.
    Now, if you had one of these> , You could spot problem areas before they became a problem. Unfortunately, not cheap.

    Roger
     

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