Natural Gas Furnace build.

Discussion in 'Furnaces and their construction' started by Bldr J, Sep 2, 2021.

  1. Jason

    Jason Gold

    That portaband is a nice saw, Too bad for 300bucks they forgot to give it an electric cord.
    Unless you need it to cut metal fence posts in the back 40, I'd stay away from that one.
  2. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    You must have never used one, Jason. The power that is stored in the batteries is amazing. This tool, like my portable cuiurcular saw uses two batteries. It will cross-cut a 600 hundred 2x4's on a single charge. And the recharge time is very quick. I can't imagine running a battery down in a single session. Not having to trip over wires and find plugs is great. Visit a construction site sometime and see how many corded tools are being used. Not many---maybe a chop saw or table saw. Everything else is batteries. Try it sometime.

  3. Bldr J

    Bldr J Copper Banner Member

    Buy it. I have a Bosch one that came with crappy blades. (They're better now) and use it so much. Love my stationary metal cutting bandsaw too.
    A mitre base for the cordless one would rock...oh wait I can cast aluminum now...
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  4. Mach

    Mach Silver Banner Member

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  5. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    I use a metal cutting bandsaw like this one
    I use it more than any other tool in my shop hands down. Horizontal or vertical depending on the application. It's not something I use for accuracy, but its fast and generally trouble free. I picked it up on Craig's for 75 bucks.

    Regarding the NG burner performance, use the search function and search the key words by member Masteryoda. He'll get you dialed in.

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  6. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Yes, I have one too and is very much used. I have made some modifications that address some of the shortcoming of those saws. Making a real, waist level, robust table on casters for it with a 12ga tray to catch all the swarf and a nice outrigger to support long stock as well as taper pin stops for the vise at 45 and 90 deg has made it a much more usable saw that reliably cuts within .005 of square or better per inch vertical and horizontal.

    I've decided to get the hand-held Makita as well. There are many times that my larger castings are to cumbersome to degate on the horiz/vert bandsaw. Using a 7" Makita abrasive saw to degate works pretty well (much better than my 4.5" Milwaukee) but throws swarf 15 feet and is noisy. Using a bandsaw when practical to prepare stock and degate is definitely preferable, IMHO.

  7. Bldr J

    Bldr J Copper Banner Member

    I have an old bandsaw like that too. Dialed in just right, I can't ask for any more accuracy. I make some pretty good mitres with a jig, that can mostly be autogenously TIG welded, but often wished I made the effort to make a better vise for it. It's not so good at clamping small pieces.
    I'd like to see your setup for the vice.
    Maybe I had too fine a pitch blade for cutting the ingot. I do have an antique power hacksaw buried somewhere, 6 or 8 tpi I think...
    The bandsaw is probably the most used tool. So quiet, no dust, set it and let it go.
  8. Bldr J

    Bldr J Copper Banner Member

    Thanks! I'll check the threads on NG burners. I have no problem melting aluminum, and have only done one brass melt. I'll have to read upon what atmosphere I need for each.

    Dialed in, you can get that bandsaw pretty accurate. Took me a bit of fiddling but I couldn't ask for better. Mine was a leftover given to me, an old BusyBee (Canadian), one made in Taiwan, probably all made in the same factory. I looked at the newer ones and they seem to use a lot of stamped parts now.
  9. Al Puddle

    Al Puddle Silver Banner Member

    I recently bought a new WEN 6"x4" bandsaw and would like to saw it's great but I can't. The blade comes 1/8" shy of cutting through anything; the pivot hole in the casting is mislocated. This means the remaining tit will always need to be filed off and sometimes it will be hard to separate the cut piece. The cutoff switch doesn't snap to off which means the saw turns on again the moment you lift it to remove the work piece.
    I have an older bandsaw, same size, called a buffalo and it works great. So, I think it's best to avoid WEN if you can even though it cuts well and square (most of the way).
  10. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Gold Banner Member

    I've used a portable bandsaw (corded fwiw, the cheap one from Princess Auto) for chopping up fat ingots of everdur. It worked fine once I replaced the blade it came with.

  11. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Update, my variable-speed, battery-powered hand-held Makita bandsaw came a few days ago. It seems very well made, blade changes are very easy—-throw a single lever, slide on a blade and put the lever back in working position. I like it a lot. One surprise is that the manufacturer recommends that cutting oil not be used as it could cause slipping. Cutting wax is recommended instead. But, not surprisingly, no cutting wax or oil is recommended for my primary use which is cast iron.

    I was impressed with the brochure accompanying the tool showing the 270 models of tools that Makita “forgot to put the cord on.” ;-). I guess it is a popular idea.

  12. Jason

    Jason Gold

    Your money. I buy stuff with cords when it's used in the garage. Cordless is great for cutting small stuff, but I'd never make it through 4inch round stock or my bronze ingots.

    Dennis, face it, If told you the sky is blue, you'd find some way to disagree just to dig in on my ass. Batteries are for cell phones, but I bet your lawnmower is rechargeable too 'eh?
  13. rocco

    rocco Silver

    Not so long ago, I would have agreed with you but cordless tools have improved a lot in recent years. I've been really impressed with the power and battery life of the last couple cordless tools I've purchased. The most recent one is an extended reach hedge trimmer, it cuts as well as the gas powered one I used to use and I get about 2 hours of continuous cutting on a single charge. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Denis' cordless Makita saw could make it through 4" round stock.
  14. dtsh

    dtsh Silver

    I'm divided on corded vs cordless. The cordless tools are convenient and as mentioned the battery capacity has increased making them quite useful; a couple of spare battery packs and I can charge one while depleting the others for the same effective service as a corded tool. That said, aside from the drill I tend to go with corded tools as the lifetime on my corded tools still seems a bit longer for me. The AC plug hasn't changed dramatically in my lifetime, but it seems the batteries are constantly evolving and backward compatability isn't always assured (given, one can create adapters, build their own batteries, etc but typically I like to use a tool when I need it and not create a tool to fix a tool so I can use the recently repaired tool. I'm not entirely sure the ecconomy of AC tools is what it once was though and the a lot of times the convenience of a cordless solution over 10-15 years mine tend to last seems close to what some of my corded tools tend to last, so maybe it's a wash.

    My string trimmer is battery powered, wish I'd gone with it years ago instead of that damned tempermental 2 stroke and it's accompanying hassles.
    My lawn is a bit much for battery tech to be affordable, but I'm hoping in a few more years I can join some of my friends and be able to mow without the gas, maintenance, and hassle too. When this mower is worn out, I really hope there's a reasonable robo-mower capable of the task at a comparable price as I'd love to recover the time wasted there.
  15. Jason

    Jason Gold

    I bought the expensive dewalt hedge trimmer. Junk. The ergonomics were designed for one of Jerry's kids. I took it back.
  16. Peedee

    Peedee Silver

    A friend demonstrated the ability of his battery powered impact wrench and snapped a bolt of that then took a day to drive out. Horses for courses and all that.

    Horizontal band saw all day long for chopping stock. Hit the button and have a cup of tea :)
    Petee716 and Jason like this.
  17. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Jason, go back through the times I have contradicted stuff you have said. I think you will find that the only times this has occured are when you have been outspoken on subjects you really have no knowledge of and are frankly contrary to what would generally be supported by experience, training or generally accepted science. Go back and check to see if this is true or not.

    In my experience if you said the sky is blue, I would definitely check to see if the sky were, in fact blue, and I would not hesitiate to point out rainclouds if present. I take exception to BS, you see. So, you can be sure that if you are posting stuff that is factually based, you will not have to worry and never have. If you jump in on me with crap---like your baseless claims of near uselessness of batttery powered portable bandsaws in this thread, you can expect to be challenged. (Obviously you have never laid eyes on a modern battery posered saw---that's what got you into trouble this time.) And particularly, if you start pontificating blatantly false and, in my opinion, franklly harmful medical opinions, I will use my decades of medical experience and training to point out the baselessness of those claims. I know you will be unconvinced, but letting that BS stand unchallenged just does not work for me. I would much prefer it not happen on a casting forum. There are plenty of political forums for those that need to promote their world view.

    BTW, what size are those bronze ingots? Cuz I just cut a standar 3.5 by 2.5" Everdur ingot with the saw in just a shade under 3 mins and still had 2 bars left on the battery:

    D 3625F7A3-F1E8-4F2C-8FD4-2E10252C7068.jpeg 791DB0BC-4A20-4539-AA47-3456D6306EE6.jpeg

    Aren't facts interesting? So nice to base claims on them rather than imagining what might be true and stating it as fact!

    And then, on the same battery of course, I cut through this not quite 1x1" cast iron bit in just under 20 secs.

    I did not try on a 4" round it, but it would probably be significantly longer than the ingot since the cross-sectional area of a 4" round is not quite twice that of the ingot.

    And why on earth would some one use a portable on 4" round stock? That is like saying a Pitts Special is useless because it can't fly from NY to LA without refueling. Wrong tool for the job. But, let's see the 737 do an outside loop followed by a hammerhead going into a flat spin and make a nice clean recovery and landing. I'll continue to use my horizontal saw for the heavy stuff. But the portable is perfect for degating and similar tasks as suggested in my original post on the subject (which you felt necessary to dismiss based on what factual information or actual experience?) Did I mention how quiet and clean it is to use? ;-)

    Anyway, those are some reality-based data points for anyone interested in the performance of a good-quality portable band saw with a decent blade.

    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
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  18. Peedee

    Peedee Silver

    It's not my place to say this but I will, play nicely boys, a few comments askew are one thing (amusing even) but an open war just screws a good thread. I'm obviously not a mod and nor would I want to be so I'll leave it there.
  19. Bldr J

    Bldr J Copper Banner Member

    Denis, What blade (brand/type and pitch) are you using?
    I love my little Bosch 18v bandsaw, but no way will it cut like yours. I cant even cut a half inch into the ingot before the blade craps out. I'm doing something wrong. I know the blades suck on the Bosch ones because its a tight radius (small wheels) and the blades develop fractures in a short time, but I wouldn't want to be without one. It's especially nice that it doesn't smell like a cutoff wheel, has no sparks, very little vibration and in my line of work, a controlled chip path that's easy to clean up.

    I think there's space for discussion on corded vs cordless in having to lug a cord vs swapping batteries or the weight of batteries. I wouldn't want to keep swapping batteries if I'm grinding all day long, or using a rotary hammer/chipper. But for a few holes in concrete, some weld cleanup or prep, my cordless tools including grinders and cutoff tools suit me fine - that many less cords or air hoses flopping around.

    I can't always afford to have both shop and site tools, so cordless for me for most of my tools. I have a corded track saw, table saw and mitre saw because I don't get the point if you're hooking up a vacuum hose anyway. Vacuums, that's a whole different subject...most I've tried suck but don't. It seems they try to balance battery life over actually working. I do have a little ridgid one that works really well for about 6 minutes then you need to swap the battery. Still worth it. I had to modify it to take a Bosch battery, and my assistant modified his to take a Makita battery.

    What I'd really like some feedback on are the cordless angled die grinders. I like to use 2" rolok discs and pads. (Milwaukee, etc.) I have a Bosch 4.5" grinder that I made an adapter to use them, but the head doesn't get into tight areas. For $200 CAD I'm tempted...
  20. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    A mile from where I live there is a family-owned company that welds band saw blades. I visited them and they recommended a 10 TPI blade. I am not sure of the brand though I think the coil stock was German in origin for this blade. The guy said that he feels Lenox and this German company are neck ands neck. And I wil say that I have had very good luck with Lenox band saw blades and Starrett Die Master as well. I think the main thing is that for this job in thick relatively soft material a coarse (10TPI) bi-metal blade from a reputable manufacturer is the key. Also, a good weld is important. This company uses a a very high-tech Swiss welder that makes very good welds that they guarantee for the life of the blade. I can tell they are very good because I do not hear the typical click-click-click as the blades weld passes through the cut. Lesser welds make a very audible noise and will often hop a little too as the thickness is off and the two ends may not be optimally aligned.

    I am not otherwise connected to the company (which began in a garage a down the street from my home!) but I am impressed by their products and customer-oriented attitude.


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