Sourcing Polybutene for K-bond

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bird-X-10-oz-Bird-Repellent-Gel-Cartridge-BP-CART-EACH/300287719

I'm working on ordering a sample of Indopol L-14 and L-100 from PalmerHolland. I'll let y'all know if I'm able to get pricing.

Preston

 

Very interesting...will you be sizing a batch to use one tube? Recipe?

 

No, I'll probably order a case of them in order to make a few hundred pounds. I was only able to get 1 gallon samples of L-14 and L-100 from PalmerHolland. I will probably have to order a drum of it unless I want to just use the bird gel at a much higher price per pound.

 

Mach was selling Bentone for K=Bond.
http://forums.thehomefoundry.org/index.php?threads/bentone-for-sale.1879/

 

Preston, I think you have been looking at the wrong “K-bond.”

You need bentone (Mach has it and I got some from him.). Polybutene is not what you need to make oil-bound molding sand. Polybutene is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polybutene

Having you been looking at components for this K-bond? https://www.bbindustriesllc.com/k-b...G--3tF3K7Si1gIMEV_qKTmuLq_VrCLeoaAq2kEALw_wcB

Denis

 

My understanding is that the 2 cycle smokeless oil was a substitution for Polybutene and that methanol or glycerine are substitutions for the Propylene Carbonate.

 

Here's some notes, mostly quotes from Tom Corbett, that lead me to source Polybutene:

Smokeless 2-stroke oil will ALWAYS be better than regular (smoke producing) motor oils. You can also use mineral oils (white oils) but they tend to burn out at lower temperatures. Amorphous polybutene (a.k.a. INEOS Oligomer INDOPOL L-14) is better than smokeless 2-stroke oil, but hard to find in small quantities. It is completely smokeless and is considered to be a food-grade lubricant.


The K-Bond sand will turn gray and eventually black after many uses. If it feels dry, add more of the oil component. If it feels lifeless (low in strength) add more of the glycerol or other polar compounds like methanol or even water. I don't use water since it causes steam in the mold. I don't want water anywhere near molten aluminum since it can cause hydrogen pin holing.


"So far, so good. I did notice 2 things that you may want to improve upon. If you can find smokeless 2 stroke oil, that will indeed be smokeless! Semi-Synthetic might give you some smoke. Make sure it says Smokeless.


In stead of using ethanol as the polar activator, you may want to use something that does not evaporate so fast. Try using glycerin (glycerol). About $25/gal. at Walmart.

Ethanol boils at 174F. Glycerol boils at 554F. Glycerol is more polar than ethanol and it will last longer and it is good grade!

K-Bond should always work better than Petrobond. P-Bond is red because it contains iron oxide, which stains your hands.


Keep me posted!


Tom Cobett


Prices shown here is what it cost me (http://www.ray-vin.com

http://www.ray-vin.com ) to make my first batch. I am not

selling K-Bond at this time. Density is about.17 lbs per cubic

inch. One pound is 5.86 cubic inches. My cost per 100 pounds is

$31.51 not including freight. Ingredents: 100 lbs. sand - 100

mesh or finer - http://www.u-s-silica.com/US Silica F110 6 lbs.

Organo-bentone - http://www.rheox.com/Bentone 34 or

http://www.scprod.com/VG-69 3 lbs. Polybutane (2 US Quarts)

Indopol L-100 BP Petroleum or Chevron OLOA


0.2 lbs. (3.2oz or 91grams) Isopropyl alcohol - any pharmacy


- or -


0.2 lbs. (3.2oz or 91grams) Methanol (dry gas) - Auto Parts

Store


- or -


0.2 lbs. (3.2oz or 91grams) Propylene Carbonate -

http://www.lab-proinc.com/Lab-Pro, Inc.


Mixing:


Mix the sand and bentone first, then blend in the oil

thoroughly. I have done 10 lb. batches by hand with good

results. The bentone is very dusty and the sand contains silica

so wear a dust mask! Add in the alcohol and mix thoroughly.

Done!


The sand won't seem like much until the alcohol takes effect

and then it will become like stiff cookie dough. How stiff? It

boggs down my muller! It will be much easier to handle when it

is a day old and will get easier to use with time and use. The

sand gets powdery after it sits and it is best to mull it or

warm it before use. When green strength starts to fade, add in

some alcohol.


Sand:


F110 from http://www.u-s-silica.com/US Silica My cost per pound

$0.21 $8.95 / 100 lbs. from Abrasives & Equipment of Atlanta

This is an excellent foundry sand. You should try to get it.

Check with sand blaster suppliers or contact US Silica and ask

where you can get it near you.


Bentone 34: My cost per pound $2.76 $138 / 50 lbs. from ViChem

in Medley, FL 1-800-325-6109 Made by

http://www.rheox.com/Rheox.


You can use other organo-bentones as well. One is known as

VG-69 and is used by oil drilling rigs. Don't even think about

trying bentonite, kitty-litter or speedy dry. They are a

completly different thing and I am tired of explaining why they

don't work with oil. Try it if you must, but have a hole ready

for getting rid of it!


Oil:


Penzoil synthetic 2-stroke oil: My cost per pound $2.00 From

Wal-Mart $11.95 / 6 lbs. (1 gallon)


The receipe calls for Indopol L100, but it is difficult to get

in small quantities (Less than 55 gallons). Indopol is a

polybutene and is manufactured by BP as well as Chevron. You

can sometimes find it at industrial lubricant distributors who

will tap off 5 gallons for you. You can also call and ask for a

sample.


Gelling agents:


I find propylene carbonate to work the best, but these easier

to get alcohols work well.


Isopropyl: Rubbing alcohol from Wal-Mart


Methanol: Dry Gas from Wal-Mart


Here is a post from Tom Cobett stating where he gets his

materials:


Dec. 19, 2002


You can purchase a 5 gallon pail of propylene carbonate

from the following company for about $150.00 or less. They

will ship by UPS.


REFCOTEC Inc. (330) 683-2200

542 Collins Blvd.

Orrville, OH 44667


These guys supply K-BOND materials to commercial

foundries. You can buy BENTONE 34 from them also. I doubt

if they would sell anything less than a 5 gallon pail or a

50 lb. bag of BENTONE. Talk with their salesman Randy

Gallatin. He has been involved with the commercial side of

K-BOND since it was invented about 5 years ago. These are

really nice people who have carved out a niche market by

manufacturing ceramic coatings, silicate binders, core

adhesives, release agents and specialty products for use

in foundries.

 

BTW, Tom Cobett is a forum member, he's not a frequent contributor but he has made a few posts here about k-bond, search on his name and you will find them.

 

It would be neat to get with Tom and update the 2014 document with the latest substitutions and updated sources. At home I stuck it into a spreadsheet that can calculate the active ingredients based on the amount of sand.

PS added zip file with spreadsheets (Excel, OpenOffice, and CSV) plus the 'wide' jpeg

 

Is there an organic chemist in the house?
Seems like they both have the same CAS# 9003-29-6 but the Indolpol has an alternate CAS# 9044-17-1 and says 100% copolymer and the bird stuff is 60-100% homopolymer. Some of the descriptions make Polybutene seem like a copolymer so how can it also be a homopolymer? I am so confused...