Today I started a new pattern to make a metrology parallel/level

Discussion in 'Pattern making' started by Melterskelter, May 13, 2022.

  1. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    I did get the pattern split without incident. I was very careful and did use a newly-sharpened blade and a pressure-guide to keep the cut straight. I was a bit worried about the two plastic bolsters wondering if one of them might crack or be dislodged. But everything went smoothly.

    Then I started gluing them onto the 3/4" plywood matchplate. I used thin cyano to attach the two pieces and was super careful to not get one side upside down with respect to the other side. Making such a senseless error would have been so easy for me. I checked and rechecked before committing glue. I did drill the registration holes and thought later that one fairly fail-safe method of ensuring I would not make a reversal would have been to bore just one centered and one well off center. As it was both were dead center. So, flipping the wrong way would have been easy.

    One new technique for me today was making micro-fillets using thin cyano. Where the pattern meets the plate I wanted to provide a tiny fillet. Something on the order of .016 inches would have been fine. So, after getting the two halves glued down correctly, I spread a thin bead of liquid cyano glue along the join line. Surface tension pulled it into a nice radius. I knew that spraying the wet fillet with cyano activator would cause it to foam up into an ugly hard mess. But I was impatient to have it set up and open thick wet cyano sets pretty slowly. So, I stood back about three feet and just gave the wet cyano a couple of very brief puffs of activator. It worked! After about 30 secs the cyano had set but it did not foam. Yes!

    Here are some pics. Eventually I intend to pour two castings per flask. I'll make a copy pattern using Repro. For now I am just mounting one front and back pattern half to the plate figuring there may be some bugs to work out. That is why the pattern is offset from the midline. I Bondo'd the registration holes. The surface of the matchplate has a couple of casual coats of shellac. The plate itself will not be highly finished as experience has shown the flat surface of the plate need not be particularly refined to pull cleanly. Different story for the vertical parts of the pattern, of course.

    Matchplate5 Split.JPG Matchplate4 Split.JPG Matchplate2.JPG Matchplate1.JPG
    The cyano micro fillet
    llet using thin cyano.JPG

    I hope to finish setting up the plate tomorrow (I'll hand cut the runner, splash basin and gates for the shake-down casting sessions. Once I know what works, I'll convert to permanently adding those features to the plate.)

    Denis
     
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  2. Tops

    Tops Silver Banner Member

    Looks great Denis!
     
  3. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Continuing the saga of bringing a new parallel to life: I got the pattern painted using lacquer, waxed it, coated it with graphite and talc and gave it a whirl packing it with green sand. Overall, it worked out really well. There was one tiny pock mark in one corner of the drag half of the pattern. I had looked the pattern over pretty well I thought. But the sand "found" the pockmark causing a repeating small area of cracking of the sand. The area was small enough and not dislodged. So, I was able to very gingerly tamp it back into place. I think it will hold up to the flow of molten metal. I'm not certain it will. But I think it is likely to be OK. Other than that problem the pattern pulled very nicely once I figured out how to lift the matchplate without bruising areas of the mold. (Each new pattern requires some time to learn its peculiarities. It would be very rare to just pack a new mold and have it pull just right the first time and every time thereafter.)


    Here are a couple pics:
    The pockmark was in the cope side of the pattern right in a corner.
    Packing Mold Pock Mark3.JPG

    Closer pic---the actual defect is in the center of the dotted circle.
    Packing Mold Pock Mark2.JPG

    The drag side of the mold. Later I cut a splash basin, runner and gate into the sand.
    Packing Mold.JPG


    The cope side.
    Packing Mold2.JPG

    I will place a ceramic filter in the srue base. You can just see the sprue mold deforming the sand to the left and slightly below the mold cavity below. It will be above the splash basin in the assembled mold.

    I'll fix that pock mark with a tiny bit of Bondo.

    20-second video survey of the match plate pattern:
    https://youtube.com/shorts/8u6fCejwARE


    Denis
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2022
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  4. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Teaser: to late to do a reasonable write-up. But.... Casting Number One.JPG

    Summary: No defects!

    Denis
     
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  5. Tops

    Tops Silver Banner Member

    Very nice. Is that the Repro material? A couple more then on to the production match plates?
     
  6. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    No, that is iron.

    I intend to work on making another pattern or two using Repro quite soon.

    Denis
     
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  7. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Sorry to be slow giving more of an update on the new casting. Been kinda busy.
    I did use the matchplate mold and had quite good luck with it. I did get some fin formation likely due to slightly wonky flasks that really are for a different split pattern. A little twist is forgiven when using a split pattern as the twist might slightly affect the part line. But the cope fits snugly on the drag regardless. Not so with a matchplate and I knew that going into it and I knew the selected flask was large enough for the plate even if it was twisted a bit. Before casting again I will make a dedicated wood cope and drag and plane them so they meet on a flat plane. I'll use 2X4" lumber with shallow lap joints and long GRK wood screws.

    This is the drag side.
    Raw Parallel Back.JPG

    This is the cope side
    Raw Parallel1.JPG

    Side view. you can also see the tumblehome of the pouring basin sides here.
    Raw Parallel side.JPG

    You may notice the sprue is quite massive leading down to a 2" square area. In that square is a ceramic filter. The sprue is so large so as to give good access to the full (well, almost full) face of the filter as the filter would restrict flow if only a 1/2" area was accessible. Never tried that small sprue on a filter, so don't know that for a fact.

    You might also judge my gate to be needlessly large. And you might be right. But, in my foundry, it seems that large gates help me avoid vacuum defects at the gate. Anyway this mold filled very quickly. I'd say it took maybe 5 seconds or so.

    I used no vents and no risers. I poured at about 2525F

    The fins broke off easily and I used my belt grinder to grind the seams down a bit. Then I used a die grinder and carbide bits to smooth off the inside seams. All that took less than ten minutes.

    I've done some work on the pattern to remove the pockmark and smooth some fillets where the pattern meets the plate.

    The next learning curve will be making a POP mold into which I can pour Repro to reproduce my wood pattern. I'll set up a plate with two patterns on it so I can cast two parallels at a time.

    Denis

    PS Thanks, guys, for the likes and for bearing with me on this!
     
  8. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Having satisfied myself that the pattern could be cast successfully, I am now ready to start down the path of making Repro duplicates of my wood pattern. I want to set up two sets on a match plate so I can cast two parts per mold.

    I was pretty sure I'd try POP as my mold making material in which I would cast the Repro. And I posted the link to a seemingly good monograph on the subject and watched a good number of vids by various fairly accomplished artists. But a few very experienced casters expressed their reservations about POP. And I was nervous about pouring Repro One straight onto my wood pattern to make a negative mold as I was worried it would stick to the mold and be difficult and potentially damaging to remove.

    So, I chckened out and pulled out a Smooth-on Vytaflex 60 two-part urethane rubber kit and made a negative mold with it. The kit has been around for a couple years, but was unopened and seemed in good condition. So I mixed up abou 2/3 of a pint and poured it into a form I had prepared.

    The basic picture frame for the mold. I did put a bead of silicone rubber between it and the match plate to prevent the urethane rubber leaking out. I am not sure that was needed.
    Rubber mold frame.JPG

    To conserve rubber I made spacer blocks to attach to the under surface of the lid. I had to be careful to allow clearance for the two bolsters in the center bay. It would have been easy to put them in upside down.
    Rubber Mold spacers.JPG

    Spacer blocks screwed onto the lid.
    Rubber Mold spacers atttached to lid.JPG

    I drilled a lot of holes with a Forstner bit so I could monitor the pour. (I guess you could call them risers ;-)
    Rubber Mold lid with holes in place.JPG
    Then it was time ot mix, mix, mix and pour the rubber. It poured nicely. I'll have to wait until tomorrow to demold, though.
    Rubber Mold with urethane poured..JPG

    Even if this mold is not great for some reason, it should not damage the pattern. However, the way it all went together, I have high hopes for a nice mold. Thank you ESC and Kelly for probably saving me some problems using POP or Repro.

    Denis
     
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  9. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Didn't mean to completely scare you off PoP, it's certainly viable, just that it can be more difficult for molds with deep ribbed pulls and still requires finishing, and though I never experienced a complete disaster, demolding was difficult, and I almost always experienced some areas on either the mold, masters, or repops that need minor touch up and repair. The usual problem was pulling the sealer and finish layer off the PP and having it stick to the master or repop which could usually be removed with some effort.

    I think an elastomeric mold is by far the lowest risk to the master and easiest to demold from any reproductions. Being your elastomer is also urethane, you still need to observe good parting practice. Silicone is a treat but very expensive and you need to seal the mother mold well because that stuff will run through very small gaps.

    I didn't notice, did you incorporate any features in the mold for investing the repro? Easy enough from the backside of the match plate for the first side, but maybe not so much for the second side. I started using a paint pressure pot for a crude injection molding method. I'd mix up the repro, place the mixed pail in the pot, seal it up and use hose and cheap plastic fitting to make the connections, evacuate the pot to degass, then pressurize to deliver the repro. Introduce the repro at the low point in tilted mold and then us a soda straw to vent the high points. I stuck the straw through a cup to catch the over run. IIRC it usually took 10-20psi to motivate the repro out of the pot into the mold. It's pretty viscous for small hose diameter. The invest port would only be 1/4"D or so. I think it was described in that pump tee box marker thread. I've also just used tall plastic stand tubes to develop some feed head pressure.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
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  10. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    No, I did not plan on casting the Repro working patterns directly onto the match plate. Maybe I should consider it. I had planned to just open cast the Repro and then true up the open face portion and then glue it onto the match plate. I guess casting it onto the plate might save some fairing at the junction of the pattern and the plate?

    It would not be that hard if I wanted to do so, to drill diagonally into the Side B mold cavity area after attaching the Side A portion of the pattern. Both injection and vent holes could be made. Using a pressure pot, attaching the needed line, cleaning the pot and lines, etc would involve a fair bit more work, though. Are the major advantages of injection molding I am missing?

    It looks like the cost of tin-catalyzed silicone is similar to the two-part urethane rubber I am using. Does the silicone offer special advantages over the urethane? The urethane does not require degassing. Evidently, the silicone does need to be degassed. Silicone rubber evidently releases more easily from a pattern piece.

    Denis
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2022
  11. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Either way works, it just saves a step and you would need to have included some kind of indexing pin/features on the mold. I still think you'd be better off with a flat back instead of just open face for thickness accuracy and ability to use it as-cast/molded. The plus to making them separate is if you have a malfunction it's not stuck to the match plate. I use to keep pieces of countertop Formica on hand for backing boards and mold frames.....very smooth and easy to prep......but not always flat!

    Silicone is self releasing from urethane and depending upon the type, longer library life. One caution, need to check compatibility with your finishes. Can depend on Tin vs Platinum but shellacs are usually a no-no and can cause adhesion while others can inhibit cure. Last time that bit me was here:

    http://forums.thehomefoundry.org/index.php?threads/two-barrel-carburetor.947/page-4#post-23586

    About everything benefits from being degassed, it's just matter of degree. If degassing is inconvenient, most of the time you can just pour the silicone in a thin stream to degass and keep the mold surface facing down. Buoyancy will carry any air bubbles to the mother mold side.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  12. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    I think I can just use a nice square plate and measure within a 64th from edges to get accurate enough placement of cope and drag. If I were repeatedly positioning, I'd use pins.



    Happily, I have previously used this urethane rubber with the lacquer finish I used this time. But good point to remember


    I was careful to pour slowly and part of the reason for all the holes in the backing plate was that they allowed me to see how the pour was progressing and see what bubbles might be included.

    Denis
     
  13. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    I did pull the urethane mold off the wooden pattern this morning. And PULL it was. Even though I had a couple of years ago used the identical Urethane Rubber product and identical lacquer and wax and silicone relaease agent. That time it released very nicely. This time it also released generally very well but there were a couple areas where it stuck fairly firmly. Luckily it did no damage to the master, but in the flat "window" area at one end where the finish was not as good as the pattern itself there was some strong adhesion that pulled away part of the facing of the plate. Thankfully, that area is very easy to repair. Next time on the other I will use PVA instead of spray silicone which I thought would be enough of a release agent. And I will wax, PVA, wax. I will apply the PVA with an air brush to avoid brush marks. The rough seen in the closeup hopefully will not nhibit release from the Repro. If it does, I'll just start over on the urethane.

    It is possible that I missed arease with the wax. But I thought I was careful and did 2 or 3 coats.

    Urethane Mold1.JPG Urethane Mold2.JPG


    I have to wait until later next week to do the other side as I have contacted a rubber stamp shop to make some lettering for me. They use a CNC/Laser device to expose a UV sensitive liquid to microdots of UV light to additively form letters of any size and font imaginable. To make "Foster" in bold arial 1.5" high and 1/4" wide will cost 10 dollars. I'll see if that material will owrk well for this mold by making a small test piece. If it is acceptable, I'll get a few more words and place them on the pattern and mold the second side. I have had a very difficult time find appropriate-sized plastic lettering with tiny train modeling letters available and then 1/2" and larger sign letters available . But, the approximately 1/4 size seems very scarce.

    I'll try the Repro on the present mold this afternoon.


    Denis
     
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  14. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Got my nerve up and filled the mold with Repro. Per Kelly's recommendation I did test the Wax, Wax, Wax/PVA/Wax release agents. On the left side of the test setup I used the w,w,w,PVA,w routine and on the right added a couple sprays of silicone. The added silicone did help with release. But, there is a concern about the release. When I tested the blobs of Repro dropped onto the mold material, the way it was pulled off tested mostly its peel strength. But as I remove the Repro from the mold, much of the stress on the interface of mold and Repro will be sheer with some peel due to the flexibility of the urethane mold. I am anxious to see how this casting releases.

    Here are pics of the general setup:

    Testing Wax, PVA, Wax on left and same +Silicone on right
    Repro in mold wax and PVA on left and Wax, PVA, SIlicone right--better.JPG
    The general setup and release agents. I leveled the mold pretty carefully.
    REpro in mold prep materials and leveling.JPG
    Cross pieces are suspended on short blocks and have drywall heads well down into the Repro. Leveling shims below the mold.
    REpro Mold Shimmed.JPG
    Pretty closs to right on this relatively low-sensitivity carpenter's level
    Pretty well leveled.JPG

    Another view of cross pieces. I intend to wedge under them to break out the Repro, hopefully, without cracking the Repro.
    Cross pcs have drywall heads down.JPG

    Denis
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    OK! The Repro pattern is out and it and the mold are intact. As you might guess it took some careful application of extraction force---not too much and not too little (as if I knew) and hearing a bit of a peeling noise and seeing a corner come up and then going to the next cross piece and so on. I am glad that is over.

    Repro out of the mold.JPG

    You can see that the mold had some minor imperfections. But it will take only a little hand work to make it cast-worthy. Next mold will be better! Next casting will be done more confidently---I hope.

    The Repro casting was still a bit flexible and was somewhat warped longitudinally due to my extraction forces. I just set it on my mill table face-down with some weights for an overnight rest as the Repro finishes polymerizing. In the morning it will be very hard and no longer easily deformable. Also I hope it will be pretty straight. Any lack of straightness will be remedied on the matchplate, however.

    Lesson learned: Next time I'll put in more cross pieces, probably five, and the first one will be right on the end. That is the natural spot to begin extracting the casting. I will pull the Repro at about the same curing stage next time. It was hard enough to not dent with my fingernail even with some pressure. But I could tell it was still a bit flexible. That is supposed to be the ideal stage for drawing. The Repro does not heat up very much at all while curing. It is a filled polymeer and the fill material may spread out the resin and add mass and thus reduce heating. Epoxy this thick would have been very warm---probably uncomfortably hot.

    Next steps: I've got more urethane on order. Will make the back half mold after I get the lettering situation handled.

    BTW, it took just over a cup of Repro to make the pattern piece.

    Denis
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2022
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  16. Rotarysmp

    Rotarysmp Silver

    Just curious, how many times would you be able to to mould up flasks from the original wooden pattern before it wears out? I have only ever cast one off's or a few at most. Is a good woooden match plate pattern like that one you made only good for 10-20 moulds, or is is reasonable to get a hundred or thousand moulds from it?
     
  17. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    I have a couple wood patterns I have used in green sand on the order of a hundred times. I really have not counted. But, considering failed molding attempts, they have likely been used over over 100 times. In that time they have undergone numerous tweaks with improved filleting, replaced lettering, repainting etc. With reasonable care and a little maintenance, a wood pattern should last nearly indefinitely. That is the sort of durability I would expect if it is used with care. One of the reasons I started casting myself was the rough use my patterns experienced in a commercial foundry. There, the person ramming them up is most interested in getting the job done and they are using a resin-bound sand like Airset which solidifies very firmly. Removing a pattern from a resin-bound sand can be pretty hard on the pattern if not done gently. Green sand is so relatively weak that it does not require more than very gentle extraction force.

    The plastic clones should be even more durable.

    Denis
     
  18. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Is that a carryover thought from demolding SS sand molds? Not sure I'd ever demold a urethane casting that is still green if for no other reason, just for accuracy sake but seems to me it could make demolding more difficult, because usually with a rigid cured part and mold, once it pops loose in one section it occurs everywhere, but maybe not if it's flexible. Since you have an elastomeric mold, I'd even more so think you should insure the casting is hard cured.

    The absolute lowest stress method (on both the pattern and operator!) Is to be able to remove the mother/backing mold from the elastomer and then peel the elastomeric mold of the reproduction. This is where silicones might be a bit easier to work with because in addition to not requiring prep on the casting side (or maybe at most wipe with a coat of paste wax) they are easy to separate from the Mother mold. If the elastomer is thin, they just need some mechanism to hold them in place in the Mother mold, usually gravity and the casting pressure depending upon mold orientation but sometimes retention features. When this method is used, you can actually strip them from deep back draft and undercuts......not important for you because all your patterns are drafted, but often used to when prototyping injection molded parts and resin statuary and ornamentals.

    Keep in mind the various formulations for gel and demold time are also strongly affected by temperature and can vary quite a bit. Those formulations also vary for casting thickness and, trust me, if you cast a thick section with a thin section Repro formula, it will get hot and will be more prone to shrinkage and defects. As far as release, I think the Freeman site actually recommends several coats of each of the wax-PVA-wax steps......and you are right, it's hard to maintain surface finish even if you spray the PVA, another reason silicones can be better to work with......no PVA required. Incidentally, people think PVA is release agent. It's really not and will bond quite well to most clean surfaces. It's barrier to prevent interaction between the casting and mold materials; the wax is the release agent on each side of the PVA.

    Which side is the PVA sticking to? That thin, green, cigarette cellophane cleans up quickly with warm water.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  19. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Depends on how fragile the pattern features are, how durable the surface coating/finish, and for sure the molder not striking it with the ram, but I can remember my foundry buddies would certainly expect hundreds and flatter patterns without deep draws perhaps low 1000s with care and casual maintenance.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  20. PortaMelt

    PortaMelt Copper

    Denis

    Thank you so much for your wonderful documentation and photos. Your effort, work, and attention to detail is really quite impressive :) If you mentioned it earlier, I must have missed it, but I was quite shocked when I read that you cast it in iron :)
     

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