Eagle Statue - Zapins

Discussion in 'Lost wax casting' started by Zapins, Dec 10, 2017.

  1. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    That sounds too much like work. Just buy this stuff. It's been around for decades. http://www.bwccompany.com/bowlingalley.html
    It definitely has something like turpentine in it. Sticks to high hell until it evaporates off the bronze.
     
  2. Zapins

    Zapins Silver

    I poured the bird and the stick tonight.

    The bird is 1200 grams without its claws. The stick is 450 grams. What's that in bronze? I'm multiplying by 8.6 for bronze to wax. I'm getting under 50 lbs (capacity of my crucible) for both together.

    That's quite a bit lighter than I expected. I wonder if I can cast it as 1 piece with no welding required... ? Hmmm.
     
    Jason and Mark's castings like this.
  3. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    grams?? what are you a grass dealer? :eek: that's 3.6lbs of wax thank you Mr google.. so get ready for a big melt bro.. you need the weight of the cup, the sprues and all.. then multiply by 9 or your 8.6... you can pour the bird in one go... Just still gotta weld it's butthole closed after you remove the shell.

    where's the photo of the first wax pour? Video???
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  4. Zapins

    Zapins Silver

    Ha yeah grams is what my scale was set to. Welcome to the worlds standard of measurement! Been banking up video footage. Will cobble some kind of video together and post soon.

    I suppose I still need to have the chest cut open so I can put shell inside it. Otherwise I'd need some kid of floating core
     
  5. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    Yup... I'd try to sprue him though that hole if ya can... say maybe 3" x 4"... Again I am having to put a lantern on hold.. I'm about to do my first hollow piece. Looks like I'm going to cast a pair of Fritz's foxes.. He had some beginner try it and I hear he screwed it up. (like I'm the voice of experience....:confused::confused::confused::eek::D)

     
  6. Zapins

    Zapins Silver

    Here is a pic of it coming out the mold. I'll take more later. His belly ripped open because I opened it up while still warm. Tisk tisk tisk. Sort of works out anyway since I needed to cut the belly open. I'll probably repair it and cut a smaller hole because I don't want to be welding close to the base of the wings, only the smooth belly should be welded.
    [​IMG]2018-02-25_10-43-07 by Zapins, on Flickr
     
  7. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    Awesome... Now the fun begins of chasing all that wax,
     
  8. Zapins

    Zapins Silver

    Ohh yes. Lots of chasing to do. Though I was surprised with how well it cast. Not as many defects and bubbles to fix as I thought. Not sure if that is because I brushed wax on the silicone before pouring or if this material is better than my tin based silicone rubber.

    Probably less than 2 hours of fixing it up I think (famous last words).
     
  9. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    The brushing does help and I wouldn't be surprised the platinum silicon made a difference. It usually takes me a 2nd or 3rd wax to get a keeper. Almost like breaking them in. I still cant see how or where you pour him when closed up.
     
  10. Zapins

    Zapins Silver

    I poured him through a 1 inch hole in his right foot. I have the silicone square so I can seal it up and shake it around without spilling. It's a tight fit but it seems to work so far.
     
  11. Artopsy

    Artopsy Copper

    Hi Zapins, the chickens coming along well!
    Just a couple of thoughts that have occured to me as ive skimmed the thread. From the images in the above post only the first is for the ceramic shell process. The rest are designed for investment casting.
    In the first all of the runners are entering the edge of the shirt- none are going inside the sculpture. Apart from the ones joining to the cuffs (to prevent air pockets) all are run straight into the edge and the metal will flow all the way to the neck with no problem with a hot shell mould. No need for internal sprues cos the shell is hot and porous. The rods you see going through the shirt in the pic are just supports to prevent the wax deforming when handling, support the inner shell to stop it moving and to attach the wax to the metal frame for easy handling while shelling too. They dont carry any molten metal when poured.
    The second 2 pics as i said are investment moulds. The first is a recreation of a famous illustration showing just how much work was needed to run bronze using traditional casting techniques (and how many runners and risers was needed!) The third is not as bad as far as runners/risers go but still too much for ceramic shell casting.
    Saying all this, all of the above would work with ceramic shell but the additional work isnt necessary and will add a lot of clean up time. I understand the desire to 'just to be on the safe side' stick a few more on but it really isnt needed if the bronze and the mould are nice n hot.
     
    Jason likes this.
  12. Artopsy

    Artopsy Copper

    1200g seems quite weighty but im not sure on the scale of the piece, how thick is the wax? The amount of bronze for this is easily within your capabilities tho so as long as the wax is less than 10mm (there goes the funny measurements again!) you should be fine. Closer to 5mm is better tho.
    Im afraid its going to have to be welded. No 'one pour wonders' for this one. Even if you could get the ceramic slurry in the cavity it wouldnt dry and if you did get it to dry it would be unsupported on wax burnout. And as for pouring it solid it would be ludicrously heavy and the distortion would be seriously bad.
     
  13. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    Edge... Good idea, a little extra wax up and under the lip will make a nice big opening to let the metal flow.

    Artopsy... You really need to hang around us more often bud. I've got a hollow fox coming up soon and I'm going to use that setup. After he is cleaned up, I'll need to weld a bottom on him and that extra bronze will be perfect for keeping the cover from falling in.
     
  14. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    Hey.. whats the thinnest you have had success pouring bronze?????
     
  15. Artopsy

    Artopsy Copper

    Another thought that has occured to me that may be useful for you. It is good practice to put fewer slurry coats on the inside of the mould so when the bronze contracts on cooling it is able to break up the shell. This means its less likely to create shrink tears. This was covered in the seminal work of the following thread on AA.
    http://www.alloyavenue.com/vb/showt...-shell-flip-pour-demo&highlight=Ceramic+shell
    As i said before, the sculpture is looking great, keep at it. If you have any questions let me know.

    John
     
  16. Artopsy

    Artopsy Copper

    I have cast filligree for jewellery at less than 1/2mm but i aim for consistant pours around 3 to 4mm. Its a bit elitist but one thing that is considered when making a 'fine' bronze in art circles is the lightness. As we all know here, it takes more skill to make a thin casting than a thick one!
     
  17. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    Less coats on the inside.... I would not have thunk that one. Duly noted!

    3-4 mm is thin... I'm going to have to try it.
     
  18. Artopsy

    Artopsy Copper

    Funny you should mention hanging around more often. Ive started videoing a few bits recently and was thinking of putting them up here if i can figure out the shotcut editing stuff.

    The fox looks to be a good candidate for running the bronze through the bottom edge as the shirt above. I'll check out the video now.
    J

    Edit. Just checked out the vid. This is a nice easy one to cast. 3 or 4 runners to the base edge and pour. Done! No clean up of cut sprues on the sculpted surface. And a good candidate to get the wax thickness down to 4 mm.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  19. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    if you have a question in shotcut.. just post it. or you can search on YT for it. It has a HUGE following. Hope to see your stuff.
     
  20. Zapins

    Zapins Silver

    Hmm. Interesting. 5 mm is better for a shell thickness?

    Mine is 5-12 mm I'd estimate in most places. I think when I poured it I didn't get very even coverage of the raised areas inside.

    I've been working on chasing it. Yeah 2 hours isn't going to cut it. Basically going to take me a lot longer.

    I might do the external spruing. It will make chasing it easier than internal sprues and reduce the temptation to say to hell with it and weld the belly over the internal sprues.

    Fewer coats inside? I had thought of that before but wasn't sure if the fewer internal coats would be able to hold back the wall without cracking and pouring all the bronze into the stomach cavity. How many coats do you think are the minimum necessary? 4 would be my guess. with 7 or 8 on the outside. What do you think?
     

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