Kwiky burner with a twist

Discussion in 'Burners and their construction' started by OMM, May 22, 2019.

  1. OMM

    OMM Silver Banner Member

    Pat, how many bricks are you using in your diameter? 14? And are you 2 bricks tall (18”)?

    Mine is going to be a very similar design to yours too. I’m gonna try it out initially without any hot face refractory.
    My top and bottom bricks will be cut exactly the same. They should have a 2 1/2“ x 2 1/2“ x 4 1/2” off cut which I will add to the walls which will make the walls 13 inches tall. Outside all the brick I’m going to add the 2 inch fibre blanket

    This is my rough sketch.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
    Tobho Mott likes this.
  2. PatJ

    PatJ Silver Banner Member

    This is what my design finally morphed into.
    I originally had an lid with a lip that overlapped the hot face shell by about 2", but that kept sticking shut, so I ended up filling in the lid lip gap, and let the lid refractory rest on top of the IFB's.

    It is two IFB's tall, and 14 IGB's per layer.
    You may have to custom cut the final IFB to get an exact fit, especially if you curve the interior of the IFB's, which brings them in on a slightly tighter radius.

    I keep the crucible up as high as possible, and have multiple plinths made from Mizzou to accommodate multiple crucible sizes.

    The shell is an expanded beer keg, and it actually took I think 4 beer kegs in the end.
    I would have come out cheaper buying a stainless steel 55 gallon drum, and that is about the diameter I ended up with for the metal shell.
    My stainless shell is expandable, and I ended up using two layers of 1" ceramic blanket around the IFB's instead of the one shown in the attached sketches, so the actual diameter of the stainless shell ended up being 24", not 22" as shown on the sketches.

    The lid is made from the top of two beer kegs, and is larger in diameter than a beer keg.

    I think there is a link to my keg furnace build in my signature.
    Be aware that the design changed considerably from how it started, so if you read it, pay more attention to the end of the thread, not the beginning.

    My lid is 1" cast Mizzou, with a 1" layer of ceramic blanket on top of it, and then a layer of IFB's on top of the blanket.

    There is about 1/4" of ceramic blanket under the 1" Mizzou hot face shell, and it crushes down to about 1/8" when everything is assembled.


    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
    OMM likes this.
  3. PatJ

    PatJ Silver Banner Member

    This photo shows the 4 stainless bands that are snug, but not tight.
    The keg bottom shown under the furnace in the photo below is not part of the furnace; it is where I dump my slag.
    I just happened to have it under the furnace to keep it out of the way.

    And I don't use a drain in the bottom of the furnace.
    I use good condition Morgan Salamander Super clay graphite crucibles, and I have not had one fail yet.
    If I did have one fail, I would turn the furnace on its side, and run the burner, and let the spill melt and drain out on the ground.

    If you don't jam the scrap into your crucible, then it won't expand and crack the crucible.
    You should tap the crucible lightly before you use it, and it should have a ringing sound, not a dull thud.
    A dull thud sound indicates a cracked crucible.

    OMM likes this.
  4. OMM

    OMM Silver Banner Member

    Thanks Pat for the very detailed reply.

    Kegs are a very interesting container. But as I mentioned in another thread, in my parts any container that is sold (which contain alcohol) has a pretty hefty deposit on it. A full size keg has a deposit of $60. It doesn’t matter who brings it back, no receipt needed. $60 in cash in your hand per piece. You can see why these things are stored securely and theft might be pretty high.

    I can pick up a whole 4 x 8 20gauge sheet of stainless steel for about $125.
    I think I can probably get this all out of just over half a sheet 18 ft.²

    My initial goal was to have this under 2‘ x 2‘ x 2‘ and under 150 pounds, (including the base) easy to repair and easy to reassemble, and easy to adjust. Everything easy. My most difficult task so far has been planning the lid layout and clamping and IFB’s off cuts for reuse.

    I think, when I’m done, I might exceed the 2 foot height and I might barely exceed the 150 pounds.

    Generally high temperature IFB’s (so I was told) come in boxes of 16 pieces. I am personally trying to build this as economical with two boxes with a couple spares. I’m trying to build this around 30 IFB’s. I was blessed with 40, and I could make this furnace more sound without using the scraps. But, I figure I’ll use up the scraps.

    I am pretty scared of using the brick as a consumable face, as I was told future brick will cost about $9 apiece. But, I’ll never know how it holds up unless I give it the old college try.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  5. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    Good reminder... I always forget to do this.
  6. OMM

    OMM Silver Banner Member

    This also rings true with grinding wheels too. I install about a half dozen of these a day. Nothing sucks more than having a grinding wheel blow up in your face.. I have pictures if you really want to see them...

    As well with grinding wheels, pay close attention please to the RPM rating. Safety goggles don’t fix teeth or face.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  7. Jason

    Jason Silver Banner Member

    Good reminder Matt. I try to wear a full face shield over safety glasses, but you know complacency creeps in.:oops::(
  8. OMM

    OMM Silver Banner Member

    Thanks Kelly... and your build looks quite amazing!!!
    I guess you got a little bit of machinist background in you?

    I got 40 of the white 3500 IFB’s. This is what I’ll be using for my hot face. The bricks are 2 1/2 x 4 1/2 x 9.
    I am going to initially loose lay the bottom and side walls, so all the interior will be IFB’s, 2 1/2 inches thick. Then I am going wrap the outside of the IFB’sWith 2 inch Fiber blanket that only has a rating of 2300°F. My walls (plus top & bottom) have a thickness 4 1/2 inches.

    I was told I could have the 2600°F IFB’s, (light ones) and they weigh about 25% less then the 3500°F IFB’s (light ones).

    This is where I’m sitting today. I’m currently in the middle of plasma cutting the two 22 gauge stainless steel rings for the lid and 12 gauge Hot rolled steel for the base. I also put in an order for 10 stainless steel 5/16-18 couplings.

    Maybe this weekend I will roll my disc sander outside for final fit. This is not an easy task, as my sander weighs 2200 pounds.

    This is where I’m sitting today.
    90987EED-B8C1-4CB8-88B7-2E8490B57141.jpeg 90F1FA7D-0C97-434F-835E-0903936815EB.jpeg A0ADAF22-B781-48AD-8A67-969416D72518.jpeg

    I usually use the sander as a pencil sharpener. Lol
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
    joe yard likes this.
  9. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    I do the best I can but am really just a hack......but I try not to let that stop me.

    Oooh! I'd like to see that. I have a 6"x48" belt and 12" disc Delta Combo on casters but here's my favorite....model 382-DD Oliver 24" Dual Disc. It's about 1400lbs so I don't move it around too much


    OMM likes this.
  10. OMM

    OMM Silver Banner Member

    You and I are nuts. I do love the Oliver‘s too! I believe Oliver made a dual 36” too.

    Mine is a 30 inch disc and Bobbin sander (Wadkin JTA)
    2670811E-5092-4C4B-888A-250416C73E6D.jpeg 896720F1-6A3D-4616-AB11-C6E0AB871E39.jpeg
    Here is a time lapse of me unloading it.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
    Tobho Mott likes this.
  11. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Yah, but for those who have had the privelidge of using them, they are really nice and valuable tool for old school pattern making. With a course abrasive on it makes steel disappear rather quickly too.

    Yes that would be their model 34. They had a 30" and even made a 48" and a combo unit with a spindle sander like yours too. I have a stand alone spindle sander.

    I love old iron. Names like Wadkin, Tannewitz, Yates, Northfield, always get my attention. If space were no object I'd have a Tannewitz table saw and 12" Yates Jointer/Planer but the ones I have are sensible for what I do.

    I actually wanted the 36" Model 34 Oliver but I only have a 10HP Rotary Phase Convertor and I figured I'd never get the 36" started without a pony motor and the footprint is quite a bit larger. Then the 382 I own became available at a great price and condition within driving distance and that cinched it. I soon learned I was right about starting the 36" on the RFC. The model 382 is only 2HP but with those two 24" discs hanging there, it's right on the verge of what my 10HP RFC can do but if I just give it a few jabs with my palm and spin it up 30 rpm or so it spins right up. My friends always freak out about how long it free wheels after shut down.

  12. OMM

    OMM Silver Banner Member

    I have a 5 hp RPC (And a portable 20 hp RPC with transformer). Everything in my shop runs fairly decent off my 5 hp RPC. The Wadkin JTA disc sander poses the hardest start up time. It is an eight pole motorSo it doesn’t have the RPM challenge, it has the inertia challenge. The 30” disc weighs about 130 pounds. It has a 4 hp motor and takes 14 seconds for it to get up to speed from standstill, and 14 minutes to stop.
    I definitely have some of the same bugs you have. I have a Wadkin PK Patternmakers bench saw. IMO it is one of the sexiest tablesaws ever made, that can do almost everything. 5 hp, 18 inch blade capacity, sliding table and tilting fence. But 1700 pounds. They definitely don’t make them like they used to. Mine is 60 to 70 years old, everything is solid cast iron . What they make now a day ends up in the garbage in 20 years.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
    Tobho Mott and Mark's castings like this.
  13. There's nothing like some vintage Wadkin machinery, I use a patternmaker's bandsaw on a regular basis and it's a joy to use. I once won an auction for a Wadkin disc and belt sander for $50, later on the auctioneer played dirty and refused to load it onto my ute but offered a refund instead. I took the refund as they get a lot of good machinery in from time to time, I've since bought a mill and a bandsaw there for a good prices.

    Melterskelter and Tobho Mott like this.

Share This Page