Tobho's HT1-Inspired Cement Mixer Muller Build

Discussion in 'Sand Mullers' started by Tobho Mott, Mar 22, 2018.

  1. HT1

    HT1 Silver Banner Member

    muller plows are not specifically designed to flip the sand, they scrap the sides and position the sand under the wheels, and push sand out from the center of the machine and again position it under the wheels, all while scraping the bottom of the muller ... My muller failed to get the sand well positioned under the wheel well , but since the wheel had a very close clearance to the side wall, that created a compressive mulling action, it was a lucky serendipity... Jeffs wheel design will not create that because it is small and lacks the side area of my wheel... but if he gets the sand under his wheel it will work... with that in mind I would suggest he works with an arrangement that allows hi,m to do some experimentation with his plows... if you look at mine they are removable pieces held in place with set screws, so I could fiddle with them. I get luck and hit a good arrangement on only the second try... I want Jeff to have as good of luck

    V/r HT1
     
  2. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Silver Banner Member

    I hear ya HT1, I haven't completely figured out how the scrapers/plows will be attached yet, I've been looking at as many pictures of how they are arranged as I can find for ideas. But in any case, making sure I can adjust them once I can see how they are working was always the plan.

    Even the wheel could be moved in or out or side to side or twisted a bit (though that would mean drilling a few new holes)... I kinda just eyeballed where I thought I should put it after looking at a bunch of pictures and thinking a little about balancing the work I imagined would have to be done by inner vs. outer scrapers.

    Jeff
     
  3. J.Vibert

    J.Vibert Silver

    It could be a better way to skin the cat, but I can't recall seeing another muller beyond HT1's that does smear the sand into the side wall with the wheel.

    Everything else I've seen, which doesn't amount to much honestly but does included commercial mullers, simply runs over the sand and has ploughs to roll it over / direct it under the wheel.
     
  4. oldironfarmer

    oldironfarmer Silver Banner Member

    It looks to me that your wheel might benefit from turning into the flow a little more. About like the steering wheels on a dirt track car, a little to the right of tracking on the bottom so it runs straight over sand which is approaching it, rather than straight over sand which is directly under the lowest point on the wheel. You might ocnsider some clamp bars to let you adjust the wheel several times as you are starting to use it.
     
  5. HT1

    HT1 Silver Banner Member

    upload_2018-4-12_19-43-0.jpeg This pic does the best at showing what you need to do at the far right is a blade that scrapes the side of the machine ... towards the right center you see an a sweep coming out from the center that pushes sand under one wheel... on the left is a blade that pushes sand from the wall under the other wheel
     
  6. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Silver Banner Member

    Thanks. That type of arrangement seems to be pretty common from what I've seen, that one really does give a pretty good view of the arrangement of those parts.

    Is it just an illusion, or is the wheel on the near side in the pic closer to the center of the muller and the wheel on the far side closer to the outer wall, so they are not quite tracking on the same path? I thought of maybe doing something like that to make up for this wheel being only 2" wide before I decided to keep it simple and go with a single roller setup.

    Jeff
     
  7. HT1

    HT1 Silver Banner Member

    I suspect it is an illusion... all the ones I have seen are spaced evenly... I admit that is 6 total different models... the two wheel design is really for big machines... the biggest I have seen is 300 lbs .. ours will be under 50 lbs so the two wheel is silly overkill... I’ve seen pics of one Ton mullets with wheels 3 ft in diameter... keep your piddies out of that for sure
     
  8. PatJ

    PatJ Silver Banner Member

    The muller below has only one large wheel, so it makes me wonder because most that I have seen are tw0-wheel designs.
    This muller works very fast and extremely well, so it is not a matter of one wheel not working well.

    My guess is that two-wheel designs are less expensive to manufacture due to less force/torque on the main vertical shaft.
    Two wheels would tend to balance the force on the main shaft and end up closer to a net zero bending force on the vertical shaft and bearing.
    Two wheel designs require more parts, but lighter parts with smaller shafts, arms, and bearings is my guess.

    There is something about the one-wheel design that I like, and the beefy look of it.
    I also only like large-bore single-cylinder motorcycle engines, I guess for the same look and feel of them.
    The fender-muller design I started is a two-wheel design just because it is much easier and cheaper to find the smaller iron dumbell weights than to find or fabricate one large one.

    http://forums.thehomefoundry.org/index.php?threads/an-old-simpson-muller.291/#post-5391
     
  9. PatJ

    PatJ Silver Banner Member

    I found this muller photo/engraving in a book about Swedish machinery in the early 1900's.
    A rather beefy machine.
    I assume the tub rotates on this unit.
    Spring-loaded wheels.

    Swedish-Muller-01.jpg
     
  10. J.Vibert

    J.Vibert Silver

    I've been considering the same thing. Having the 2 wheels track differently. That said, I have a ton of real estate (~36"d) to play around with within my muller "tub".

    If I was doing a cement mixer retrofit build, I'd probably stick to one wheel. However I'd make it a wide one, even if that meant stacking two together.
     
  11. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Silver Banner Member

    You know, it might be better to spend a little extra cash now doubling up the wheel as you suggest than to spend the next couple years cursing you for making me wish I had... :D the one I have in there now is noticeably narrower than most other cement mixer muller wheels I've been looking at. I will consider it.

    Jeff
     
  12. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Silver Banner Member

    Got some pictures of the wheel assembly and wear plate installed:

    20180414_135617-1040x780.jpg

    20180414_135642 (1).jpg

    Video:



    Not sure how much I'll be able to get done this weekend, things are kinda busy around here...

    Jeff
     
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  13. crazybillybob

    crazybillybob Silver Banner Member

    Tob,

    Your last video got me thinking. You could clean up that rough cut around the top of the muller by turning it on and going after the edge with a grinder. It may not make it perfect but it would help and would make fitting some split pipe or a fat bead of weld around it easier. Mind the pinch points since everyone is worried about you pingeies (or whatever you all call them).

    CBB
     
  14. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Silver Banner Member

    That is exactly how I finished mine though I also tigged a band to widen it before grinding the whole works true. By bracing the grinder against the over-frame you can get the top edge to be nearly in a perfect flat plane. Then a strip of almost anything could be bolted or riveted or welded on to make it less knife-like. Even a piece of 1/4” x 3/4 or so oak could be steamed and bent on and the fastened in place.
     
  15. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Silver Banner Member

    Good tip, about bracing the grinder against the frame. Thanks.

    Finally - a weekend with nice weather!

    Got in a casting session on Saturday night, cast 8 clamps for attaching the lengths of pipe that the scrapers will attach to onto the crossbar. They just have to work, not look pretty, so I did them as quick and dirty lost foam castings (ie. traced out from a cardboard template then hand carved one by one on the bandsaw* with no cutting jigs nor investment coatings). I tried to carve the foamies so the holes would be a little loose on the pipe and hope they didn't shrink more than necessary to get a snug fit, but I'm going to have to file them out a bit because they're all a wee bit too tight now that they are cast...

    clamps.jpg

    The idea I had was to cut out a small gap through one side of each piece (the side that I used as the gate) that I can then run a bolt through to tighten up and hopefully it'll flex enough to clamp down on the pipe so it won't spin or slip. I don't actually know if this'll work, but if not it'll be a learning experience and I had fun casting them anyhow. I can always remelt them and come up with some other solution if need be.

    The oil burner worked much better than it did before I had cleaned all the big chunks of blubber out of the needle valve a while ago, the difference was like night and day! The pliers-based ingot tongs also worked perfectly when I had to add another ingot or two.

    All 8 clamps cast out great, I had made a couple extra foamies just in case so I have a couple extra probably.

    I even found my long lost sand scoop that I did without all last year, hiding in an old bucket of lost foam sand I was positive I had looked in! I'm not superstitious, but all signs seem to be pointing to a good casting season coming up.

    I've got them de-sprued and cleaned up a bit on the belt sander and the holes drilled and even got those slots cut out so far, but I haven't had time to file them out yet to fit the pipe. More pix and some video on the way eventually...

    Jeff

    * 8" benchtop woodworking bandsaw. I've used it with some difficulty for pattern making, and it's barely better than no bandsaw at all for making accurate cuts in wood. However it is amazing for cutting out Styrofoam patterns, even the back of the blade will cut, so you can spin it in a circle without even moving forward if you need to. I tried the portable metal cutting bandsaw just to see, and it hardly turn at all without tearing out chunks of foam.
     
  16. crazybillybob

    crazybillybob Silver Banner Member

    Tobho,

    The best thing I did with the HF porta-band was throw the blade that came with it in the trash!!! put in a decent Brand (Morse around here $20) night and day difference I've been cutting steel tube an plate and aluminum extrusion and plate a bunch lately for my project and it's so much better. I also knocked together a quick and dirty table for it some 1/4" steel plate with tubes welded to it for legs, couple of bolts through the plate hold the saw (I will toss up some pics if you want). Haven't tried foam on it yet :) but I might have to give it a go now just to see.

    Keep up the good work.

    CBB
     
  17. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Silver Banner Member

    My portaband is from princess auto, similar if not identical to HF. Not great for foam as I mentioned; if you want to make tight turns the blade is just too wide to work as well as the small benchtop saw. I have already replaced the blade (it broke cutting some heavy angle). I looked at a ton of saw stands like you're talking about, and would not say no to looking at some pix of yours. I like the idea of putting a little table on it, but so far I don't mind just clamping the handle in my vise to use it that way.

    Jeff
     
  18. crazybillybob

    crazybillybob Silver Banner Member

    Ok I want to preface this with... I SUCK at welding! Can I stick two pieces of metal together and it hold under crazy loads ....YES...is it pretty ...NO!
    Now On with the show.
    Here's the stand. (the two screws in the table screw into the saw where the stock "guide" was located.)
    [​IMG]

    Here's the legs (adjustable feet are just nuts welded into the tube. Some large washers weleded to the head of a bolt)
    [​IMG]
    There's a tube arch under the table (to help keep it from flexing from the weight of the saw)
    [​IMG]

    The project I am cutting steel and aluminum for.
    [​IMG]

    CBB
     
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  19. Tobho Mott

    Tobho Mott Silver Banner Member

    That's awesome, CBB. The saw stand looks simple to make too, I like it.

    Just wrote up a long post, posted it, realized it was almost all repetition from my last post, and came back to replace it with this paragraph, lol. Here are more pictures of the clamp thingies.

    20180423_152338-1040x780-520x390.jpg

    20180424_131207-1040x780-520x390.jpg

    Jeff
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2018
  20. J.Vibert

    J.Vibert Silver

    Great stuff Jeff. I'm at the point where I need to start thinking hard about how to attach scrapers and the wheels.

    Make sure to post very detailed pics and explanations so I don't have worry about figuring it out on my own...lol
     

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