Kiln PID Controller retrofit?

http://www.fotek.com.tw/Ecenter2.asp?product_sn=34&class2_sn=16 Zoom in on those puppies.

 

I honestly thought both of those units were dodgy?? , give me a Crydom relay any day.

 

I agree Mark, but ya take what you can get when ya can get it. I know there is a moped and fat chick joke in there somewhere.

 

You going to autopsy the fake and see if it's got a 12 Amp triac inside?....... there's a dude like that in my town: it looks like he's levitating along the highway on an invisible mime's moped but then you see the tiny red bike underneath him.....leaves you wondering about ball bearing engineering and materials science.

 

autopsy only if it try's to burn down my house. I need the DC/AC SSR...

 

It only takes an opto and a few resisters to turn a BTA triac into a work horse with DC isolated from the line, that said, heatsink the pile o crap SSR and hope it doesn't give out is a way forward. You have to factor in failure even with a quality SSR so you should consider the potential of the elements being over-run in any eventuality.

 

Not to be a noodge or anything, but NEITHER one of those solid state relays are fake. They are both legitimate parts, but they sure aren't equivalent.

The part on the left, a FOTEK model SSR-40 DA - the one that you say is inferior, is a solid state relay capable of switching 40 amps of single phase AC. The AC input range is 24-380 VAC. This relay is controlled by a DC signal with a signal range of 3-32 VDC.

The part on the right, a FOTEK model SSR-60 AA, is a solid state relay capable of switching 60 amps of single phase AC. The AC input range is again 24-380 VAC. This relay is controlled by an AC signal with a signal range of 80-250 VAC.

When I'm trying to buy a specific part off Ebay or Amazon or wherever, if the specific part number is not listed in the description OR I can't read the part number in any of the pictures then I look elsewhere. Been burned by somebody fat-fingering the part number or just miss-representing the part too many times. I've got several crimpers that were SUPPOSED to be for JST connectors, or Dupont connectors, that are actually crimpers for Dupont connectors only. If you've ever tried crimping a JST connector terminal in a Dupont connector crimper, the crimper will slice off part of the terminal.

Don

 

Yeah Don, they are not twins. I had to go with a different PID that uses a different control method. I can tell you these two did not come out of the same factory. These guys have gotten pretty good at knocking off stuff, but the devil is in the details. One of them is a knockoff. A visit to the fotek site and you'll see it. I just went through this with a bottle of Fahrenheit cologne last month. It came down to the method the cellophane was folded around the box prior to heating and the thickness of the glass bottle. I'm not very smart, but I did watch Sesame street as a kid..

Sing it guys...

 

Sadly I didn't watch Sesame Street as a child. I somehow felt I was too mature for Big Bird and the other guys, and I was pretty busy with college when it started too.

 

I finally collected all my parts and pieces and then the phone rings... Happens every time. I did get to plug in the Auber PID before heading out the door. That's some piece of hardware. There is more settings on that thing then I care to learn how to use. I'm glad I ended up with the 110vt version. I thermo pasted the SSR down to the heat sink and slapped a 40mm fan to the side. It would probably be better if I power the fan to run full time, but I lazied out and hung it on the DC side of the ssr. Anyone know if I can hang this on one of the alarms and set it ridiculously low to activate full time? My fan is 12vts.. thanks.

 

I control mine like you do yours, for the most part the fan is overkill. I like hearing it kick on and off so I know the PID is modulating.

 

I dont do pretty... But she's up and running. The fan is probably overkill, but I agree, hearing it cycle is nice. I still have pages of reading to completely wrap my head around the programming, but it is alive for now and no drama.



12.3 Amps. I can live with that.

 

I see now what you guys mean when you say, "Watching it learn" Pretty cool!

 

PID question... Starting temp of the inside of the kiln is 200, press start.
C1 565 T1 135 (and the thing turns on and is heading straight to 565... WTF happened to the "do it" over 135mins???
C2 565 T2 30
and so on....

Is this an HY thinggy? Thanks.

Found this....
Safety-start: If the difference between the PV and SV is larger than the deviation alarm settingsat the beginning of a step (or at powering up), controller will put program to “hold”, “A/M” light will be blinking, and the timer won’t start running until PV falls within the safety range(see “safety range” below). During this time, controller will try to bring the temperature to the SV of the current step as fast as possible. This safety-start feature is useful when the user is very strict about the temperature and the time of a critical step. It is also useful when the user does not want to control the ramp speed and want the system to reach the set temperature as soon as possible. Please see section 8.2for examples.

 

Hey any of you guys running the Auber PID, mind please sharing the main settings you have your rig running at? Thanks..

 

Shit I made a pig's ear of this programming. I Think.

Who wants to take a stab at writing this one?

 

I'll go double check, but I think you started too soon.

C1 70 T1 135 (start at 70 for 135 min)
C2 400 T2 30 (finish at 400, start at 400 for 30 min)
C3 400 T30 (finish at 400, start at 400 for 30 min)
C4 565 T4 30 (finish at 565... )
C5 565 T4 15
C5 770 T5 10
C6 770 T6 10
Really need a hold here, so you can restart when it reaches 482
C7 482 T7 60
C8 482 T8 60
C9 371 T9 180
C10 371

I can't remember the stop command

I'll get out to the shop and look later and correct this, but this is what I remember, start temp, time next temperature.

 

Jason:

You want to give me the manufacturer and part number for your controller? You may have already told us what it is, but I didn't see it. It sounds like your controller handles the heat profile in a series of steps, i.e. run at X temperature for Y minutes. The PID function is used to hold the temperature at the set point. Unless your controller has a ramp function built in, you will have to break the ramp portions of your heat profile into a series of smaller steps in temperature for less time.

Give me the part number and I'll see what information I can find on the controller, this is the kind of crap I do for a living.

Don

 

Thanks guys. It's an Auber syl-2352p with ramp and soak. After seeing Andy's method, I think this stuff is starting to sink in. Found the shutdown command, ya put the last temperature and -121 as the time.

So there is a command for the fast ramp down? Didnt know that. I took a wag and guessed an hr. It was pretty close. The glass weenies say you shouldn't crash the kiln to get down to annealing temp by opening the door, but I had to and helped it along.

 

Jason:

Did you get your program for your heat cycle figured out or do you still want us to take a crack at it?

From the looks of the manual, the only way to get a "fast ramp down", would be to use a cooling fan - see Fig. 9 in section 7.4 of the manual. Otherwise your oven/furnace is only going to lose heat at the rate that it naturally bleeds off. Doesn't matter what your programmed ramp says, if oven/furnace can't lose heat that fast it just ain't gonna happen. Usually though getting the oven/furnace to lose heat is not the problem, it's keeping the heat in.

Don