weird Petrobond sand recipe

Here is the MSDS for petrobond: Modified clay must refer to bentone. I have a good amount of propylene carbonate. Note the percentage of process oil---not motor oil. I noticed that home brewers of K-Bond recommend against motor oil and suggest 2-cycle oil instead. Motor oil seemed to make it very sticky by their reports I believe. I don't know the function of the pigment---maybe it is just for aesthetics? Looks like the grout mixer's 4% is in the ball park for petrobond.



Denis

 

That must be where I got the impression that PB used 2 stroke oil. I've been adding it to the burnt crust when mulling.

Grout based casting medium?
Let's see... grout = sand + cement + polymer additives.
Coming from a guy that uses concrete block as a flask and pours open face hammers down the handle hole?
No thanks

 

Well, I found one source for Bentone-34 at 9 dollars a pound in a 20 pound box or 6 dollars a pound for 50 pounds. So, at the 9 dollar price 100 pounds would be about 60 dollars for home brew. At the 50 pound price , it would be more like 45 dollars. Shipping is added to purchase cost of the bentone BTW.

The quote was from Refcotec in Orrville OH. I am checking with Lancaster Foundry Supply. Vi-Chem may be MIA.

Denis

 

I have done some looking for Bentone-34 with only fair results. I decided to write to the source on K-Bond---Tom Cobett hinmself using a snail mail address I found online. I go a very nice email response this morning. Tom said it would be OK if I cut and pasted it here:

"Hi Denis,

I recently got your letter searching for a source to buy smaller quantities of Bentone 34, the bonding clay that we use in K-BOND. I can’t get any of the manufacturers to sell less than a full bag, which is 55 lb. I am now going to the companies who buy Bentone 34 to make their own paints and coatings, to ask if they would break down a bag into smaller containers.



What if we had a source for pre-mixed K-BOND? I can get a 50 lb. 5-gallon pail made by the AFS Student Chapter at Kent State University. They use a 110 AFS GFN Silica sand so the results are quite spectacular. I don’t yet have a price but, should have it this week. Would this be OK for those who want small quantities of K-BOND

"Yes, go ahead and post my comments. I will continue to find a way to get you and others the Bentone you need. I may even buy a few bags and break it down into 10 lb. containers!

Regards,
Tom Cobett"

And my reply:
"
Tom,

When you know what price you will need to charge, please let me know.

Denis and I will post info on the forum. I am unsure of what the actual demand will be.

Thanks,
Denis"

So, my guess is Tom will be able to find the best price for small quantities of Bentone-34.
I will keep you posted on what he comes up with.
And I invited him to post on this forum information from his rather extensive metal knowledge.

Denis

 

I've been reading a lot of MSDS sheets for two stroke synthetic motors oil sold in Australia and a lot of it is only 20% synthetic with the balance being motor oils and additives. By pure chance when at a HVAC shop buying brass fittings to make a CO2 tank refill hose, I see that their 4 litre cans of fridge compressor oil was 100% polyol synthetic oil needed for K bond. Also I see on Ebay that the art crowd uses silicone oil for something so it's being sold a lot cheaper than it used to be. Silicone oil is very heat resistant and oxidation resistant but contaminates everything around it and has even shut down car factory spray painting lines when used by maintenance guys I have heard.

 

It’s his business email that is available on his website. But I’ll take it off for now.
Added: looks like. You already took it off....
Denis

 

Petrobond is pretty readily available at $2.00/ Lbs , is Kbond going to beat that price? and will it mix with Petrobond?
V/r HT1

 

probably going to have to ask Tom, or a foundry supply house, Petrobond, and Petrobond 2 clearly must have different "clays" as P1 catalyst is not required in PB2
this reference https://www.afsinc.org/sites/default/files/inline-files/k-bond sand.pdf
would lead me to believe PB1 and Kbond use the same Clay, and PB2 is something different

 

, I have to ask, where are you going to source good clean fine sand from to "homebrew" petrobond, all Playsand I have seen is aweful, I know that varies location to location, because it is as locally sourced as possible,
but the quality of petrobond is really dependant on the quality of the sand less then 0.5 % clay content, moisture .25% MAX and well, properly screened to the GFN you want (above 100) 120-180, that is a hard list to fill, I could not do it at all, I still have the Box of betone W2 sold me 12ish years ago
because I could not source good sand... in florida ( yes in Florida, stop laughing)

V/r HT1

 

Sandrammer spoke highly of them also, I need to throw some business their way

V/r HT1

 

How about contacting the student chapter directly? Selling unmixed K-bond could open up a larger marked since it should reduce hipping costs significantly.

 

Does anyone know if they use this on a high density molding machine?

 

2 bucks a pound shipped? Shipping is a killer.

So, my theory is to ship the expensive 6% ingredient.

I can get good olivine and silica sand locally in Portland and Seattle from foundry supply houses. Play sand is just playin around in my opinion. Wouldn’t consider it for it siE and grain shape as well as refractory quality.

Denis

 

Yes. Shipped built normally only inthe 75 or 100 lb quantity’s... ebay or Amazon