Surface finish help

Discussion in 'Investment casting Ceramic shell method' started by ka_6772, Apr 11, 2020.

  1. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Now I'll have to go out and check mine. I know they have a serial port on them to couple up to a computer to record readings.
    But I'm willing to bet the batteries are dead in them right now....
     
  2. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    Might be dead alright. But, one of the things Mitutoyo got right is how make a digital display that is amazingly easy on batteries. My Absolute 6” MIT calipers are good for 3 years or so on a single battery. And that is true even though I rarely bother to turn them off. Betcha they use the same circuit design in their mics. How they can be so much better than everyone else I have no idea. Just for fun, I am gonna bet the batts are still good. :)

    Denis
     
  3. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    If your wrong, you will have to dance in a G string with pasties on for Jason...:eek::eek:
     
  4. Melterskelter

    Melterskelter Gold Banner Member

    In that case, if I lose I may be charged with terrorism. But if I win, I let Jason determine your consequence. Take that!

    Denis
     
    Tobho Mott and DavidF like this.
  5. Peedee

    Peedee Silver

    Mitutoyo make incredible stuff, not sure they will approve of an image of Jason in a G string promoting their products. Then again in the current world of YT who knows?
     
  6. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    @ka_6772 Did you get a chance to pour yet Kevin?? Anxious to see how this one comes out.
    Tried to order myself some fresh slurry yesterday so I can play, but they aren't shipping right now because its snowing....:mad:
     
  7. Jason

    Jason Gold

    OMG, talk about taking a left turn! My specs called for +- .005 and I got this thing less than a thou. Pretty good for a guy that measures with a micrometer and cuts stuff with an AXE! :p
     
  8. Jason

    Jason Gold


    Yup, if it freezes, it's screwed. Mix that stuff once a month when you're not using it or you will hate yourself later!
     
  9. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Ever check the pH of your slurry??? Lol
     
  10. Jason

    Jason Gold

    lol.. Nope. But I do add some distilled water to it on occasion.
     
  11. ka_6772

    ka_6772 Copper

    I have an 8x8x8 electric, a 23X27 electric (currently 23X18) and home built half a 55 gallon drum gas, oil, coal fired one. I have started using clay graphite crucibles in my electric, but I have a propane tank lined with sodium silicate for the other. I use an engine hoist to lift it out and pour. Yesterday's casting was the first time I weighed things out. My previous casting was 6lbs so I melted 8 lbs of metal to be safe. I picked up my big kiln for $85 on marketplace. I don't want to destroy it, but it gets crashed over and over. I open it with power on. I'm gloved up and you'd have to try pretty hard to short the coils. I have a temperature controller with a spool of k-type on it. I just keep twisting the end as it decomposes. I need to get something insulated. At least the response is fast.
     
  12. ka_6772

    ka_6772 Copper

    Sorry for the delay. I stopped getting notifications. I took Thursday evening off and cast yesterday. I fired, cooled, blew it out, reheated and cast. The only areas with the ceramic inclusions are at the throttle shaft and one of the screw tabs. It sanded and polished well. Some gas bubbles came through after sanding. I accidentally let the melt get to 1650F. I poured at 1550F. I expect to have an N2/O2 membrane given to me soon. I'm going to use it to inert my kiln and molds. Hopefully this will help.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
    Mark's castings likes this.
  13. ka_6772

    ka_6772 Copper

    How do guys recommend I gate the flange?
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Only clay graphite for me. How well does the sodium silicate stand up to metal contact?

    Why use a hoist for such a small melt? - More of curiosity question here....whatever works.

    Good buy. Wouldn't worry about crashing it. Takes a toll on the IFB over time but it's a long time and at $85....who cares?

    Little too sporty for me when a push button makes possibility of shock go to zero......but we all decide what's safe enough.

    I take it this is for measuring the melt temp. Seems fine to me. I use an 1/8" Inconel sheathed K-type inside a carbon gouging rod. It has an ceramic wool insulated stainless extension and I just stick it in through a hole in the lid so I lose no heat during measurement......I still shut off the power to the coils. The carbon sheath slows response time, but it's at 95% of reading within a minute. I get 100-200 dips per carbon sheath before they are consumed by O2. I've been using the same TC for years.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  15. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Do you think that was because debris settled into those areas when washed or other reason? I cant tell from the pictures.

    In a former life, I did a lot of work with gas separation processes including semi-permeable mebranes. There will be very modest benefit from the reduction of O2 but all semipermeable membranes are also very effective desiccators so removal of H20 is probably the biggest benefit by eliminating a source of H2 and reducing the H2 vapor pressure above the melt. This will bring more H2 out of solution in the melt. You might consider just using a crucible hat and only inert the area between the melt and the hat as opposed to the whole kiln. A small Inconel tube to introduce the Argon would be best but stainless or just carbon steel would due, though the latter would be consumed over time.

    Crucible Hat and Degassing Lance Build

    Bubbles can be aspirated air or H2 porosity, the latter being common. Aspiration are usually gross defects and H2 fine pocks on the upward facing surfaces. You might take a look at the lance in the above link. Earlier you had mentioned you degassed with Argon. If it is just a tube bubbling gas through the melt, you are probably doing more harm than good due to agitating the melt surface and resulting oxidation. My lance works well but it's a PITA to use. In addition to inerting the space above the melt while degassing, I built the crucible cap to prevent splashing or dripping aluminum on the heating elements which causes them to fail in short order. I was/am going to build a small rotary degassing lance like Palmer's.

    It could be inserted and removed through a small hole much easier than my current lance. Mine would be much simpler and driven by a cordless drill with a rotary joint for the gas.

    Rotary Degasser

    Almost nothing is soluble in molten Aluminum except H2 and it's a bugger. I would pour cooler than you are. I pour at 1470F but I have to evaporate foam. I'd pour cooler than that in a sand casting and I would think you could pour even cooler in a heated shell mold. The amount of H2 soluble in Al is a strong function of temp and H2 partial pressure. I'd also tell you there is no benefit in melting rims into ingots before casting with them. Minimally heat the melt, flux if you must, degass, and pour. I've been using virgin A356 ingot without degassing and without issue. These are all finer points but matter depending on the quality of result you seek. I'd also tell you you are ahead of the game by using an electric furnace because you don't have to worry about introducing H2 through the tune of your burn, and more importantly, all of the water that comes along for the ride with combustion air.

    -Keep up the good work.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  16. ka_6772

    ka_6772 Copper

    I normally would reapply the sodium silicate every melt. The hoist is just for my propane tank crucible. I use tongs for my graphite ones.
     
  17. ka_6772

    ka_6772 Copper

    Good info. I'll check out the links. I really want to be able to degas my melt. We also have chromatography based N2 generators. They make pretty good N2. They are pretty basic and would be easy to duplicate. Do you think "N2" from a membrane would not be good for degassing? I wish vacuum worked. I know it won't remove the hydrogen, but would casting in a pressure pot at say 120 psig be of benefit?

    Thanks,
    Kevin
     
  18. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Are they just pressure swing adsorption molecular sieve systems?

    No

    Mercury Marine in Fon du lac, Wisconsin uses Vacuum/Pressure assisted lost foam casting where after pouring the flask under vacuum, they close a lid on the flask and pressurize to 150psi before solidification. They claim the post pressurization reduces/improves micro porosity 100-fold from 1% to .01% for low copper aluminum alloys (like 356)......so they also realized big improvements in elongation.

    I think it would be relatively easy to make a pressurized flask for small castings. I've probably only had one part that it would have been worth it for the improved mechanical properties. I think you can probably get to where you want to be without it by being selective with casting stock and melt management.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  19. ka_6772

    ka_6772 Copper

    I hadn't given them much thought until today. They are stupid expensive and I don't know why. It may be the sieve because I can't think of any off hand that N2 elutes before O2/Ar. They have a two stage rocking piston to a water separator to the column. It runs off a timer. Compressed air goes in, N2 elutes through a check valve to a reservoir, it vents backwards through the column to atmosphere and starts pressurizing again. I have resisted the urge to open the column and see what's inside. The column is about 8" OD x 30" long.

    Kevin
     
  20. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Sounds like garden variety PSA system to me. There are some zeolite molecular sieves that will do the job, but Carbon molecular sieves are much more energy efficient. Still likely to be a fraction of a percent of O2 depending on the draw being tapped from the column.

    Best,
    Kelly
     

Share This Page