Carb Velocity Stack Adapter

Discussion in 'Lost foam casting' started by Al2O3, Dec 13, 2021.

  1. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Spending more time upright and in the shop, and cutting patterns on the router. I put a new dust shoe on it which works much better.

    1 CNC Router.JPG

    This is a bolt on adapter for velocity stacks on an Inline Autolite carb. Besides the shape and function of the part, I used it to import and cut art work for the logo.

    Here it is still mounted/taped to the waste board.

    2 On Waste Board.JPG

    .....as cut and as the pattern came off the router.

    3 As Cut.jpg

    .....and cleaned up.

    4 Clean Up Patterns.jpg

    Also did some engraving to memorialize the occasion. Should come in handy in the future for part numbers, etc. We'll see how it casts. It's very fine detail.

    5 Engraving.JPG

    Best,
    Kelly
     
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  2. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    Nice and clean as usual.
    What are the positive attributes of the new dust shoe compared to the one sitting off to the side?
    What are the best endmills/router bits for this type of pattern (hogging as well as finishing)?

    Pete
     
  3. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Looks great Kelly, what did you wind up going with for cad/cam??
     
  4. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    The biggest difference is the brush being centered on the cutter as opposed to the vacuum connection being offset in the oval. The old oval shoe would often overhang the work piece and expose the brush so it sucked air from an open area other than where chips are being made reducing the vacuum effectiveness.

    The bristles on the old shoe were also too soft (or maybe I had too much vacuum?) and got sucked into the vacuum port almost instantly plugging up with chips obstructing flow. So overall chip and dust collection is much better now. The new shoe also uses the height adjustment dial ring from the original router to adjust height but can be released to remove the entire shoe for tool changes. My old shoe had a magnetic connection of the shoe which was nice and quick but was more cumbersome to adjust height. The new shoe has a little stiffer brush and only a 1 1/2" port which I thought would be too restrictive but with 2.5" hose and a hefty shop vac seems to be just about right. Nothing is ever perfect but this one does a much better overall job. Keep in mind that 90%+ of the time I'm using bits <.5" diameter. Bigger routers need more dust collection.

    Woodworking bits are well suited for foam because relief angle on the cutting surface is about right and their wide gullets clear chips well, and just like with wood and soft materials, for finish double or triple flute spiral bits work great for end mills and good finishes, but ordinary 2-flute straight bits clear chips faster for hogging and do well all around. I've bought a couple that were advertised with helix and relief angles specifically designed for foam and they're nice but I can't say they really perform any better than the ordinary woodworking bits. In fact, for 2-flute profile cutters, the wood working bits work great.

    Under 1"D I run them 20 krpm+ and anywhere from 60 tp 150 inches/min.....for roughing even faster......you can fly through foam.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
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  5. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Right now I'm using CamBam for Cam. 2.5D and some limited 3D surface capability. It's probably sufficient for 90% of my cam needs (at least for the time being), but it's that pesky other 10% that's a problem, but for circa $100, CamBam is a pretty impressive value IMHO and very well supported. Gary Lucas told me so....I was just slow on the uptake.

    I still have a free Fusion license. Not sold on it. Still considering Alibre. I originally thought an integrated CAD/CAM package would be an advantage but as a hobbyist I'm having my doubts and am waning on that thought. I still might go Alibre and Mach....would rather own the software for sure! Someone might have recommended that to me somewhere along the way.....:rolleyes:

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  6. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    Thanks!
     
  7. Petee716

    Petee716 Gold Banner Member

    I'm using Vcarve Pro by Vectric with Mach3. The package was a little spendy IIRC but works well for me as I utilize the design capabilities for simple flat sign work with the added benefit of 2.5 for wood/PVC pattern making. Mostly flatback plaques.
    Kelly, how are you holding your foam to the spoil board. Packing tape on the edges? How about front to back registration?

    Pete
     
  8. DavidF

    DavidF Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    You just missed the black Friday sale...
     
  9. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    If I was going to do signage or art reliefs, VCarve would be at the top of my list. -Maybe some day.

    Yes, packing tape. The cutting forces are small so it doesn't take much. I was and sometime still do use double sided tape, but after surfacing the MDF spoil board it's a bit fuzzy and doesn't adhere as well.

    Dowel pins. I drill shallow holes in the spoil board in the same locations as on the machine stock and during set up, set the machine origin about them accordingly. For machining the first side, you only need to mount the stock in approximately the right location so all the machining occurs within the stock, but in the CAM program you do need to center the part features within the registration features in at least one direction and then can flip part about that axis and then install and mount it on the registration dowels, and further tape in place for further support and keep it held against the spoil board. The dowel pockets are machined in the first side cut. Of course, the top and bottom side machine features must also be rotated 180 degrees from one another in the CAM programs for top and bottom side. It registers accurately and works very well.

    One of the limitations of a hobby CNC machine are tool changes. There are 4 or 5 tools used on each side. I have to take the complete CAM file and create cut files that only have the paths for each single tool enabled and then run them successively. I keep the X&Y work origin but need to reset the Z with each tool change. It's a PITA. I have forgotten to change the tool or call the correct program and blown up a part several times. Also, being a cheap router, it only has a collet. It'd sure be nice to have a spindle and CAT like tool holders but that is something reserved for real CNC machines......not my kit.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  10. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

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  11. BattyZ

    BattyZ Silver Banner Member

    https://mctinfo.net/amb-spindle/1050-fme-w-di

    I was REAL close to pulling the trigger on this. 1.5ish HP "ATC" Spindle. The thing that caught me up is the tool holders are proprietary and only available from the oem. Not cheap.

    I am glad someone else is feeling my pain! From what I have read/watched everyone says life get's better once you get an automated touch-off routine. Having tool holders to measure offsets offline and just plop in is the real pie in the sky.

    These parts look great! What blade do you use on your table saw to true up your stock before milling?
     
  12. BattyZ

    BattyZ Silver Banner Member

    Okay, this one could also be a very viable option for "quick and easy" tool changes.



    One would wonder if the carriage is up for it but I think the relatively unbalanced router to this *spindle* would take care of that argument. It is 220V, this might count some out. Also, the spindle is a hefty $635, though a brush kit to rebuild is only $20. The clamping ring is $35 a piece plus you would need an ER16 collet which are readily available. So for 4-6 tools looking at $800ish plus T/S&H. If this machine was going to be running daily it would be quickly justified, but for the hobbyist mileage will vary, greatly.

    **Edit: The video says that 3 rings and one 8mm collet are shipped with the spindle so that makes it a bit more attractive.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2021
  13. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Z, I couldn't get that video to run but from the link, is that a spindle with auto/pneumatic changer for circa $1k range? Not sure it's worth hanging it my current machine but I already have machine upgrade urges. I'm getting quite a bit of mileage out of what I've got (compared to where I'm coming from), and still have a lot to learn before I outgrow it.

    I have a touch plate but not sure that really gains that much if you still have to divide/load/start/stop for tool changes.......compared to walking away.

    I don't cut foam on the table saw if I can avoid it. It melts and kicks back. I hot wire to resize. One problem with the retail store foam board is the scored lines on stud centers. I can get the Foamular 150 in 1", 1.5" and 2" and stock it all, but it all has those flipping cuts in it. When I go to buy, I take a razor knife with me, and right after I'm rung up, use the knife to cut the 4x8 sheet in half, then break it into narrow planks along those scoring lines, then carry it all out under both arms and stick it in the back of my car. You should see the looks I get from the cashier.....LoL

    As an aside, that Owens Corning product is supposed to be available without that scoring and also in sheets 4" thick. It's even listed on some of the retailers websites but when I try to order it, it bombs out and when I call, I literally need to order a truck load minimum buy to get it, but sure would like some 4" clear stock. I can get EPS in any size but it does compare well to XPS on machining and quality finish on machined patterns

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  14. garyhlucas

    garyhlucas Silver

    Kelly,
    Yes you have come a long way with the CNC! Instead of Mach 3 or 4 for your next controller I suggest you take a look at the Centroid Acorn. Very easy to set up an automatic tool touch off that runs every tool change.

    Installing an Acorn right now on the CNC router we are building for the FIRST robotics team and we will have to have automatic touch off for safety and crash prevention. I insulated the T slot table from the bed of the machine too so I hope to automate X,Y, & Z of the part too.

    By the way the green foam sold by Lowes is similar to the pink stuff, with NO slots!
     
  15. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    I've been working at it. Been doing some 3D surface stuff with it lately too. You have to get a little creative to accomplish some things but for the price, CamBam's quite the value.

    Yes, it's on the list, just a matter of whether there is as active of a user community, for when I get stumped or in trouble.

    I have one. Just haven't set it up yet. Itdid take your advice and replaced the limit switches......that was a good move. Also new shielded stepper cables. The second time my machine lost it's mind for no reason and crashed in the middle of a program prompted that. I still cant reliably use the touch pad or wireless mouse on my lap top when connected to the controller but am working on a fix for that.

    That's Kingspan GreenGuard brand. It's been a while but last time I looked at my local Lowes, they weren't stocking it. I did look it up on line. The 25 psi compressive strength is the lowest density, and that is 1.6 lbs/ft3 which is equivalent to Owens Coring (pink stuff) Foamular 250. Foamular 150 is 1.3 lbs/ft3. Here's the Kingspan specs. Just select the 25psi version.

    https://www.kingspan.com/us/en-us/product-groups/insulation/insulation-boards/greenguard

    I've been using the lower density Foamular 150 but 250 does seem to work fine thus so should the Kingspan. It actually makes for a little stiffer pattern and machines and finishes a little better, at the cost of having ~23% more foam to burn out during the cast. It also says it's available in 3" and 4" thickness.......but I bet not at the retail locations.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  16. BattyZ

    BattyZ Silver Banner Member

    Yeah, I feel this.
    Resized952021121795154628.jpg
    When I was thinking about how I was going to get these cuts filled or leave them; I remembered there is a business 2 towns over that sells foam up to 4 in sheets. I remember buying some scrap from them. I need to get back in touch! Otherwise kinda stuck to designing parts or pieces to fit in between the cuts and then ruins the fun of cnc.
     
  17. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    I'm thinking commercial roofing and mechanical contractors might be a good source, but like most things, you'd probably need an acquaintance in the business or they wouldn't mess with you, unless you were dumpster diving. I found a source for the floating dock foam billets but it was 8x the density.........

    Best,
    Kelly
     
  18. BattyZ

    BattyZ Silver Banner Member

    The last time I was in he said they only except cash sales for non accounts. I explained what I was doing then he proceeded to have a forlift dump 10, 8ft x 2ft (3-4 inch thick) "cutoffs" in the bed of my truck and told me to have a good rest of my day! Like you said, wouldn't hurt to know a guy or know what beer they like...

    I machined some of that foam but actually a lot when to somebody in need so their house water pipes didn't freeze over the winter.
     
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  19. Monty

    Monty Silver

    Kelly,

    I've got 1000's of hours on CAD. I've used everything from autocad to UG NX, or now Siemens NX. SolidWorks, Solid Edge etc. I use Alibre for my personal stuff, and I have a full commercial license. Used it for 10 years doing free lance design. Best bang for the buck IMHO. A lot of the packages like SolidWorks are experiencing menu bloat of the worst kind. Alibre is still clean and simple to use. Nice user interface. SW is a very capable package, unfortunately menu structure is horrible, so is the work flow. When I need to do a difficult surface task, I use Rhino to make the surface, import to Alibre and go from there.

    I need a 5 axis cam package to work with my mill. Unfortunately they are not cheap. Probably going to go with Fusion for that. My machines are all retrofits and run on Mach 3. Pretty good package except I hate windoze...but oh well. Just my .02 cents.

    Awesome work BTHW.

    Monty
     
  20. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Administrator Staff Member Banner Member

    Gated.

    IMG_9313.JPG IMG_9314.JPG IMG_9315.JPG 15 Stack Adapter Gated.JPG 16 Both Gated.JPG

    I usually say you know what comes next. I'm just barely bipedal again. We'll see.

    Merry Christmas all.

    Best,
    Kelly
     
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